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Thread: Lubrisizer problem, help please

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Lubrisizer problem, help please

    i have sized and lubed thousands of handgun bullets, but have laid off for the last seven years due to unforeseen circumstances. Now I am having a problem that HAS TO BE just a stupid oversight which when uncovered, will embarrass the crap out of me, but I just can't seem to sort it out.
    I have reproduced the problem on two different lubrisizers (one RCBS Lubamatic and one old Lyman), exactly the same... more evidence of inherent stupidity.
    Lube is flowing, but comes out at the base of the bullet, right under the base, instead of in the grooves. No amount of raising or lowering anything seems to make any difference. I have adjusted the pushrod from all the way down, to all the way up and everywhere in between. No difference.
    New lube in both sizers, different dies. Old lube sat in both of these for those seven years, but it seems to have been cleaned out. If I force lube into the system with a bullet in the sizer, it is clearly moving because it starts to come out the bottom, but the lube grooves in the bullets stay clean.
    Please break my stupidity to me gently!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I have seen that happen with my Lyman on occasion. When it happened to me, It seemed to me that I was pulling the handle too slow or the pressure was too high. I'm not certain, but I think what happens is if you are too slow or pressure is too high, the lube squirts under the base as it passes by the lube hole in the die.
    Hick: Iron sights!

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Are you lube sizing bevel based bullets? That can allow lube to enter the gap under the bullet and above the "I" portion of the size die. It might also be that the lube ports are blocked by old dried up lube and just need to be cleared of the obstruction.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I roughly measure from the base to the center of the lube groove (assuming only one) and set the stop rod there. I also always start with no pressure on the lube in the tube.

    I then size the bullet and leave it at the bottom of the stroke, followed by increasing the lube pressure until the bullet begins to fill, and crank a quarter turn when I start seeing voids.

    For multiple grease grooves, I set it to fill the top groove, which means the lower grooves are exposed twice to the lube and should fill just like the top one.

    My SAECO has a fairly coarse pitch on the stop screw so it’s easy to go too far in either direction.

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
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    Flat based, but I have also made bevel-based bullets in the past with no trouble. By "lube ports" I presume you mean the holes in the dies. How does one clear those out?

  6. #6
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    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    As long as it has set, I'd pull the die out and heat the body with a propane torch to melt & flush out all the old lube.

    If the die holes are good & clean, it sounds like a combination of the lube being too hot and/or too much pressure on the handle.

    For rifle boollits, I set the depth so the grooves line up with the die holes.
    That gives the lube an easier path to get into the grooves.

    Depending on what cal. & mold, lots of rifle boolits don't take as much lube as larger cal. handgun ones.
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  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy

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    Is the "I" die in the "H&I" die or is your depth setting wrong for the bullet your using? GW

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master
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    My vote goes to too much pressure on the lube reservoir.

    I size and lube much as HWoolridge does-- Minimal pressure on the lube, size the boolit and while holding the boolit down I apply pressure on the lube. It really doesn't take much, I use a ¼" bit type screwdriver handle in place of the ratchet type.

    Good luck,

    Robert

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    As long as it has set, I'd pull the die out and heat the body with a propane torch to melt & flush out all the old lube.

    If the die holes are good & clean, it sounds like a combination of the lube being too hot and/or too much pressure on the handle.

    For rifle boollits, I set the depth so the grooves line up with the die holes.
    That gives the lube an easier path to get into the grooves.

    Depending on what cal. & mold, lots of rifle boolits don't take as much lube as larger cal. handgun ones.
    I thought of heating the die, but was afraid of ruining the O-ring.

    Do you mean too much pressure on the lube? If so, it doesn't seem to make any difference, lots of pressure, very little pressure, all the same result.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Baltimoreed's Avatar
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    You’ve got to keep pressure on the bullet to keep it tight against the base pin, don’t over do the ratchet, maybe 1/8-1/4 of a turn.

  11. #11
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by G W Wade View Post
    Is the "I" die in the "H&I" die or is your depth setting wrong for the bullet your using? GW
    "H&I" seems to be a language in which I am not conversant. As far as I know, that is just the name of the latest series of dies. Depth setting, as far as I know, is just the up or down adjustment of the push rod, which I have already tried, ad infinitum.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidkachel View Post
    "H&I" seems to be a language in which I am not conversant. As far as I know, that is just the name of the latest series of dies. Depth setting, as far as I know, is just the up or down adjustment of the push rod, which I have already tried, ad infinitum.
    H and I come from the Lyman parts diagrams. H is the body of the sizing die and I is the plunger that goes up and down in the body or H part.

    My suspicion is that the boolit is not going down far enough to get lubed or that the lube is too hard. What lube are you using? If you take the plunger out of the die (with the die in the lubesizer) can you see that lube is coming in to the bore of the die through the die lube holes when you operate the ratchet? A flashlight and mirror may be helpful here.
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  13. #13
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    Since you have lube flowing (under boolit base), the problem has to be depth stop adjustment.
    I heard you say you tried adjusting all the way up and all the way down...but I am thinking you are adjusting it so the boolit doesn't go deep enough into the die.

    I like to measure the ideal depth with the die out of the lubesizer, then just set it to that depth, I usually get success right away or worst case, there is only a little tiny re-adjustment necessary.
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  14. #14
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    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidkachel View Post
    I thought of heating the die, but was afraid of ruining the O-ring.

    Do you mean too much pressure on the lube?
    If so, it doesn't seem to make any difference, lots of pressure, very little pressure, all the same result.
    The 'O' ring will stretch enough to come off.
    If it's old and breaks, any hardware store has them you can match up.
    You can also poke the lube out of the holes with a tooth pick or 'Q' tip shaft.

    Sometimes you have to plug the lower most holes in the die with a shot pellet, chamfer it a little and use JB weld.
    If you get the boolit depth right, and a exit hole for the lube lines up right under the base, plug it.

    I have one for .309 that gave me fits and for years, I just kept a 'Q' tip handy and wiped the lube
    off the rod in the die every 8-10 boolits. I finally plugged the bottom holes and that fixed it.
    All the others I could tinker with depth, heat of the lube, and handle pressure to where it wasn't an issue.

    Another trick that sometimes will work is to run the boolit all the way down and try it.
    If lube comes up over the top driving band, adjust it up about 1/8-1/4" at a time until it stops.
    Sometimes that hits the sweet spot.

    But be patient.
    All the old guys here will work with ya as long as it takes to get it right, and keep you away from
    that powder coat fad that's been going around.
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 07-11-2022 at 03:45 AM.
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  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    I would use boiling water to soften and remove 7-year-old lube from the lube die(s) rather than take a chance on too much heat from a torch, which might soften the die body.

    It helps to see and talk about pictures. The "H" portion of the LYMAN die has two "levels" and multiple ports for lube injection. Lyman dies may be adjusted to lube both single and multiple lube groove boolits. A multiple groove boolit must pass all grooves through at least one injection level to lube.

    The "H" portion of the RCBS die in the 2nd picture has only one level and multiple ports for lube injection. A multiple groove boolit must pass all grooves through the injection level to lube. The "I" portion (mid-body) of the RCBS die is observable.


    LYMAN Die




    RCBS Die



    1.) When the lube die is cleaned of old lube, it is ready to adjust in the sizer.
    2.) Insert the "H&I" die
    What follows is for the RCBS Lube-O-matic II
    3.) tighten the die locking cap (#22)
    4.) install the correct nose punch
    with flowable lube, warmed if required, and no pressure
    5.) insert a boolit
    6.) adjust the bullet ejector rod (#'s 23, 24, 25, 26, & 27)...
    ...to align the boolit's lube groove at the level of the die's lube injector hole at the bottom of the ram's stroke.
    This will take some finagling, with which you all too familiar.
    7.) lower the ram, which pushes the boolit down and simultaneously lowers the "I" portion of the die
    8.) screw down the lube pressure handle
    9.) there is a "feel" for the correct pressure...some days lube squirts where we don't want it.
    10.) be patient...we have all been here.


    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    Two questions - are you saying you are getting lube under the bullet but NOT in the grooves, or lube in BOTH the grooves and under the bullet?

    Second - is this a bevel base bullet or flat base? A bevel base boolit will accumulate lube around the bevel unless you put a compressible (Styrofoam) layer under the bullet on top of the I plunger.
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  17. #17
    Boolit Master Sasquatch-1's Avatar
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    Does the bottom punch of the die move all the way through the die? It should be able to be pushed out the bottom. Is your bullet being pushed in deep enough to reach the lube ports in the die? Also, are you sure you are getting your die completely seated? Are you using the correct top punch for your bullet?

    I think you should try setting the depth as far down as the bullet will go, push the bullet in and then add pressure to the reservoir and see if you get lube on top of the bullet. If that happens then you should try adjusting up until there is no lube past the top grove on the bullet.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    Did you take the gas check seater off the stop rod? If the gas check seater seater is in place there is minimal travel in the stop rod. Just grasping at straws here. Not even sure the bullet base is low enough to get lube under it with the gas check seater in place.Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Two things to check if the bullet is not going deep enough in the sizer die. First check how the depth adjustment screw is assembled, the lock nut for the depth adjustment screw may need to be reversed, that is screwed on from the bottom and not the top. Second check your top punch, is it contacting the top of the sizer die. If it is you can grind off some of bullet end of the punch to give you more depth or turn the diameter of the lower portion so it fits into the sizer die.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Ive got a couple of "user improved " sizing dies that simply let lube go everywhere......I have to install a blade like an old time "boot scraper" to take the excess off........any excess can build up in the seating die,and drop into a loaded case causing a squib.

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