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Thread: Root Kill in Lead

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Root Kill in Lead

    Have you added Root Kill to any lead? What has been your experience?
    *
    From a giant sticky with lots of deleted posts, what I chose to pursue was post #499: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post3790727
    *
    I am using 0.4 oz Root Kill per lb of wheel weights lead I have (50:50 mix of SOWW & COWW). Melt temperature afterwards is 565F. The main benefit I’m seeing is that the lead seems to be cleaner, and I get good fill out without adding tin (Keith style 255 grain SWC for .45 Colt, with square lube grooves.). I am casting for pistols between .45 Colt and .357 Mag. I have only loaded this lead into .45 Colt and will work up to the stronger calibers as I confirm no leading. I look forward to testing expansion & barrel leading with .357 hollow points. If I get good results there I’ll send some to BNE for XRF testing to confirm there really is some Cu in there. Probably will have BNE look at the lead before and after the Root Kill fluxing, to see what all I am removing.
    *
    One thing I do different from Popper is that I mix the Root Kill into the lead as it cools into a slush. I let the near homogenous mixture cool to room temperature, then reheat later. This results in a chunk of slag on top of the lead that could be described as a cake. I haven’t looked far enough into the result to know if this is a waste of time… I hope it is.
    *
    This wheel weights lead is definitely dirtier than purchased alloy. When I think to myself about what I am doing, I say “I am fluxing with Copper Sulfate to 1) remove contaminants, 2) add some copper, and 3) prevent the need for tin.”

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master


    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
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    Do you really need to use it? Won’t sawdust or similar substances work? It may take a couple of times, but works for most people. Maybe add a bit of beeswax at the end.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I would read the MSDS https://images.homedepot-static.com/...a5df6975eb.pdf

    Honestly the risk/reward ratio for this just isn’t good enough for me to bother with the chemistry that I’m not sure about.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    I think what you are doing is just cooking the water out. It sure does give a clean alloy. I cook for 1/2 hr min, stirring to get the Cu mixed in to all the alloy as it chemically combines - not just a mix. I don't see any problem with the way you are doing it, just no advantage. The dust on top of the melt IS toxic so be careful. Root killer by itself is not particularly hazardous. Same stuff we etched circuit board with for a long time. I haven't had WW alloy for a long time, add some zinc vs tin is a cheap solution as it exchanges to get the Cu in the alloy.
    Whatever!

  5. #5
    Boolit Master super6's Avatar
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    ^^^
    Now that makes me pause and think, Do I really want to buy more range recovery...Not saying this is bad but you got to do what ya got to do.
    Give me something to believe in. Poison
    Arosmith What it takes
    A 12 step program

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I can get clean alloy with three different fluxes :

    1.) Pencil Sharpener Shavings ... cedar wood shavings , sawdust would work fine too .
    2.) Beeswax
    3.) Marvelux ... commercial lead flux

    I have learned that you need all three to do a complete job of cleaning the alloy . Using only one flux leaves other impurities ... each fluxing agent acts on different aspects of the melt ... and to do a complete and proper job of fluxing ... use all three agents and flux a melt two or maybe three times .
    Two or three light fluxes , with plenty of stirring (wood paddle works well) in between , will work much better than one big smokey flaming flux .
    Read Glenn E. Fryxell's writing ... "From Ingot to Target" ... the chapter on fluxing is very informative and enlightening on this misunderstood subject .
    Adding root killer ... this hobby is dangerous enough ... I would be hesitant to add someting like that ...it might be possible to get some fumes inhaled from root killer .. I don't know .
    Marvelux is proven commerical flux , beeswax and wood shavings all are things not good to be inhaled ... but Root Killer ... I would rather not use it .
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    What about the added copper?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Copper plugs bottom pour spouts.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    ^^^^ nope
    I've gone to 2% and no problem pouring from the Lee. Pushed the 145gr PB 2100 fps and got a 1" circle @ 100 yds. Cutting the base is tough to get just right.
    Root Kill cleans better than all of those
    very true but not why I use it.
    Last edited by popper; 07-02-2022 at 02:16 PM.
    Whatever!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I haven’t had any copper plug my bottom pour spout, but my max concentration is 0.4%.
    *
    The MSDS isn't concerning to me - I read that before I got started. The Teflon that burns out of mold releases some folks here love to use does concern me. I dry the Root Kill (99% Copper Sulfate) on top of the hot & solid lead while I’m not in the casting area, but that’s just to be extra cautious. I also wear a 3M P100 respirator (don’t buy those from Amazon).
    *
    I do use wood stick, sawdust, beeswax, and stearic acid to flux lead. Root Kill cleans better than all of those (particularly removing zinc). I also want to learn about copper. If I ultimately decide the copper is worthwhile, then I’ll buy a 20lb Lee dipper pot to make this more time-efficient.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master


    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
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    I have some root killer on hand. Maybe next time I’m melting down range scrap into ingots, I’ll add some to see what happens.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    We had a thread on this last year. The copper sulfate melts and the copper is replaced by zinc, tin or lead in that order. If you keep the pot above 725F the tin sulfate won’t form so you’re first pulling out zinc and then lead, replacing either with copper.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    What has been your experience using copper sulphate?
    *
    This seems like a subject that has been debated more than executed. I just submitted a poll - I suppose I should have started with that.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

    Mike W1's Avatar
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    I'm still wondering what would inspire anybody to put root killer into a lead mixture in the first place!
    Mike

    Benefactor Member NRA
    Life Member Iowa Firearms Coalition
    US Army Vet

    There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation.
    One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams 1826

  15. #15
    Boolit Master



    MUSTANG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike W1 View Post
    I'm still wondering what would inspire anybody to put root killer into a lead mixture in the first place!
    Chemistry
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    I use the pure copper sulfate you buy at the farm supply. Spoon it on,let it do its thing to dry first, stir it in, the remove the “ slag”, for want of a better word, to be honest, couldn’t tell the difference. Buttt, maybe I wasn’t doing it in the right way.
    I firmly believe that you should only get treated by how you act, not by who or what you are!!

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