Lee slugs

[murf205]

Attachment 302094 Here is the Slugs r Us Hammer heads that I tried and the accuracy was all over the place. Anybody had any luck with them? They mic .727 which might be a bit skinny for my .7278 barrel. 2 might be almost touching and the 3rd would go way out of a group-every time I tried them. I loaded 24 grs of Green Dot to start. 1285 fps from my Hastings 870.Then I tried a load with Blue Dot and a Pressure sabot from Ballistic Products and a 50 cal Lee muzzle loader boolit with 1 fiber over powder wad. Good at 25yds but terrible any further. All these wered in a 2 34" Cheddite hull rolled crimped.Maybe a round ball in my future.

[GooseGestapo]

Murf;

My hunting buddy has been trying a plethora of different loads from his Mossberg M220 (rifled barrel, 20ga bolt action).
He too found the Slugs r US hammer heads to give similar results.

I’ve found the 1oz Lee to not be very good. For close range, up to 30yds or so, it’s “ok”. I’ve heard that the 7/8oz is actually better, as it’s thinner in the skirt, and drag stabilizes better. I’ve got a mold, and have cast 100 or so, but not tried them. I’ve actually gotten better results from a .675” round ball loaded with a AA12 wad, and grits for a filler, shot through a rifled choke tube.

I too have a M-220. The Lyman shuttle cock slug shoots “ok” to 50yds or so. Then destabilizes giving wide groups. It’s too long... .615” round ball from a AA20 wad with filler shoots pretty well, but still gives 12-14” patterns at 100yds.
The most satisfactory load to date has been the Lee .575” REAL in a AA20 wad with filler over a light load of GreenDot. Shoots VERY good at 50yds. But it’s subsonic, maybe 975fps. But, at 1oz it’s still adequate.

[murf205]

Thanks for the info. What I have gleaned from reading quite a bi is that the round ball gives the best accuracy with the least drama. I know that quite a few here have some great success with round balls. I know that Track of the Wold sells .735 round balls and I believe I will try an order of them before I spring for a mold.
Amazing how a projectile as old as powder itself can be so effective.

[Cap'n Morgan]

I have a theory (among many ) that non-full bore slugs, like the hammerhead, may sometimes slip in the wad during launch, causing too little spin to stabilize the slug properly.

[murf205]

I believe that and also believe that the gentle twist rate of rifled shotgun barrels does not stabilize longer slugs as well as round balls. Might be one reason that the 7/8 oz Lee is reported to shoot better, or at least what I have read.

[FullTang]

Thanks for the info. What I have gleaned from reading quite a bi is that the round ball gives the best accuracy with the least drama. I know that quite a few here have some great success with round balls. I know that Track of the Wold sells .735 round balls and I believe I will try an order of them before I spring for a mold.
Amazing how a projectile as old as powder itself can be so effective.

I have definitely found that to be true in my Ultra Slug Hunter and Tracker II. .735 RBs shoot consistently well no matter how I cast them or load them. The only disadvantage is that you only have one weight, and it's heavy! The Lee 7/8 oz slugs are light and don't use much lead, so they're great for high-volume practice or for lower power "tactical" loads.

[murf205]

Anybody chronographed a 12 ga rnd ball. How heavy are they? We have some Corps of Engineer land along the Alabama river that has small tracts of land that hold a bunch of deer but no rifles allowed. Slugs/round balls are perfect for this especially since the tracts of land are generally small.

[longbow]

I haven't chrono'd any round balls but weight will vary depending on what diameter round ball you load. I have loaded:

• 0.662" (1 oz. pure lead)
• 0.678" (about 1 1/16 oz.)
• 0.690" (about 1 1/8 oz.)
• 0.735" (about 1 3/8 oz.)

The 0.662" RB's were cloth patched into standard trap wads to take up clearance. The 0.678" RB's fit some standard trap wads well but are a hair small in my Winchester wads. A wrap of paper snugs them up. I haven't had any decent results with 0 690" RB's in any wads but some people have. 0 735" RB's were loaded over hard card wad columns.

You can use any 1 oz. slug load data for 0.662" RB's so velocity could run as high as 1600+ FPS.

A 0.690" RB could be loaded to 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 (525 gr.) slug data so likely 1400 to 1500 FPS.

I wouldn't hesitate to sub any round ball for equal weight slug assuming cylinder bore barrel.

RB's in wads should be choke safe if they will push through the choke without extruding the wad petals.

I would not shoot a 0.735" RB through any choke.

Accuracy from my single shot with good loads runs about 4" or better at 50m from smoothbore. Groups start to open up fairly quickly after about 60 to 70m from smoothbore.

Having said that, I made a range trip to test some Lee slugs yesterday and took my single shot and my Mossberg 500 Slugster to compare group sizes. The single shot was much more accurate than the Mossberg with all but one load. So, as with most guns what works for mine might not for yours... ir even my Mossberg! But if you work with components the accuracy potential with RB's is there.

Longbow

[murf205]

Longbow, thanks for sorting this out for us rookies. I think I will buy some .735" round balls before I buy a mold. I would really like to load them full bore but if the results are not good I will tru .690's in a wad. I will only shoot these in a rifled Hastings.

[longbow]

Okay, mostly my experience is with smoothbore but I did shoot some 0.735" RB's through a borrowed rifled Remington 870 and accuracy was good with 3 groups of 5 shots all running about 2" at 50m.

I tried a variey of wad columns from trap wads with petals cut off to hard card and fiber wad. The best results I got were using a plastic gas seal over the powder then 1/8" nitro card wad, 1/2" hard card wad then another nitro card wad or two to get crimp height and round ball sitting on that for 2 3/4" hulls. That gave good results in both smoothbore and the rifled gun. I should add that I cast my 0.735" RB's from ACWW and they were unlubed but I got no leading in smoothbore or rifled gun. I do think using a lubed felt or card wad under the RB would be a good idea for rifled gun though. It shouldn't be detrimental to the wad column and leading is no fun.

The 0.735" RB runs about 1 3/8 oz. depending on alloy. I suspect if you buy RB's they will be pure lead so check weight. I used Precision Rifle's pressure tested load data for their 610 gr. PileDriver full bore solid slug as the basis for my 0.735" RB load. They published data for Blue Dot in "any strainght walled hull" from 36 grs. of BD to 44 grs. of BD. 44 grs. ran to 12,500 PSi IIRC which I thought was a bit much. I found that 38 grs. was about as much recoil as I wanted with my light single shot gun and that worked well for me. I can send you the Precision Rifle load data if you PM me your email.

Alternately you can sub the RB for any equivalent weight birdshot recipe but likely won't get max. velocity achievable at safe pressure if smoking hot loads are what you want.

Personally I have not found a wad that works with 0.690" RB, again in smoothbore.. Others have but not me! If you get the right wad there is no reason it shouldn't work and it is a convenient size... plus Lee makes 0.690" RB moulds so inexpensive to buy.

I did get very good accuracy from smoothbore with a cloth patched 0.662" RB (patched into a loaded hull with trap wad like loading a muzzleloader). Not sure that would work well in rifled gun though. It might if the patched ball fit is really tight.

Another alternative is 0.678" RB but I think Lyman discontinued that mould. Mine is loose in Winchester trap wads but snug in some other thicker petal wads so that might work in rifled gun and simple loading if so. Dixie Gunworks had 0.680" moulds which would work fine too. And Mihec (MP Molds) has a double cavity brass 0.678" RB mould.

You might do a search for 725's load data he posted some time ago. He uses a 0.702" RB in shotcup and gets very good results in rifled gun.

For RB's in shotcups I recommend using a 16 or 20 ga. nitro card wad in the bottom of the shotcup then a small scoop of COW (Cream 'O Wheat) tp take up the space under the ball and give it a bit of cushion... and to set crimp height. Without the nitro card wad the cushion leg will try to wrap around the ball! Ask me how I know!

Good luck and have fun!

Longbow

[murf205]

My supply of Green Dot and Blue dot is running pretty low and I have not seen any Alliant powders in a while. I do have a supply of Unique and Accurate #5. Ever try these powders? Thanks for all the info. PM incoming.

[schutzen-jager]

been using AA #5 for 1 oz. lee slug loads w/excellent results -

[longbow]

I have used Unique for slug loads but it is fast for heavy slugs and better suited to 1 oz. to 1 1/8 oz. payloads. Having said that... Ross Seyfried wrote an article on developing loads for his 12 nbore Paradiox gun and his load was 21.5 grs. Unique under a 740 gr. slug. I will email the article.

Velocity with Unique will be lower than when using slow powders but shooting is better than not shooting so if you have Unique it is suitable for the 0.735" RB's at 1 3/8 oz. Since this is not published pressure tested data I'd suggest dropping the charge a bit since the 0.735" RB has to swage to fit the bore. That swaging really doesn't take much as there is not much meat at the equator of the RB but it still mauy cause a bit of a pressure spike. Better safe than sorry! I have not loaded heavy slugs over Unique myself.

Any 1 3/8 oz. or 1 1/2 oz. birdshot data will be fine to use by subbing the RB so depending on what powders you have available that gives you some other options.

There is a bit of black magic associated with shotshell reloading in general and even more with respect to slug loading. The reloading info available generally dfoes not cover every possible combination of hull, primer, powder and wad for each payload weight because birdshot reloads are developed for consistent target velocities or field velocities and buckshot and slug load data is generally developed for the highest velocity at safe pressure. So where Ross Seyfried developed a load for a very heavy slug using Uniqie you will not find that in a loading manual.

You should also do a search of Bloodtrail's slug posts. He has shot quite a large number of heavier than typical slugs using Longshot and other powders and he lists his load data in the target pics.

turbo1889 also posted several heavy slug loads using Longshot and Steel IIRC so do a search for turbo1889.

Longbow

[murf205]

been using AA #5 for 1 oz. lee slug loads w/excellent results -

Glad to see that. My LGS can get Accurate Powders pretty easily, but no Alliant.

[FullTang]

Anybody chronographed a 12 ga rnd ball. How heavy are they? We have some Corps of Engineer land along the Alabama river that has small tracts of land that hold a bunch of deer but no rifles allowed. Slugs/round balls are perfect for this especially since the tracts of land are generally small.

Hey Murf,
I've had the .690 Lee RB mold the longest, so I have the most chrono experience with it. Mine cast at .685 and usually weigh 485 grains. My favorite load is a BPI load in their LB12 wad, a kind of double-ended brush wad, over 25 grains of Green Dot. These are rated at 1250 fps, but the load data doesn't specify a barrel length. I find they're actually a little over that in a 28 inch barrel, and more like 1175 fps in an 18 inch tactical barrel. I've loaded much hotter loads with these .685 Lee RBs, with velocities over 1400 fps in the short barrel guns. They are very stout shooting, to say the least; great bear loads, though! These are extreme overkill for anything less, though.
The .735s are much heavier, of course. Most of my loads have aimed for 1150-1200 fps, and chrono testing out of the USH seem to match the load data I've gotten from "twin loads" of equal shot weight from the Lyman Manual. That's a slightly shorter barrel, but with a slug (RB) instead of shot, so somewhat less resistance---seems to even out. I've noticed that if I tone it down slightly and go for 1000-1050 fps (subsonic) loads, accuracy is even better and recoil is (oddly enough!) quite a bit less. That's basically the ballistics of a Brown Bess musket, which will still blow through nearly anything.

[W.R.Buchanan]

i can find no creditable documentation stating that it is common knowledge of use in any rifled barrel only about the leading problems with rifling- the 1901 Waffen Franconia catalog clearly shows Brenneke slugs with spiral rifling cuts - old letter direct from Brenneke clearly states against use in rifled barrels - they do make other designs for rifled barrels -
[ Mar 19, 2004

Gentelmen,

we (BRENNEKE) offer different type of slugs.

The Classic Slug
The Classic slug, the one with the attached felt wad, is not suitable for rifled barrels. Accuracy in not improved compared to a smooth bore barrel.
in case of any questions you could contact me at wilhelm@brenneke.com

Best regards

Ralph Wilhelm
BRENNEKE
.

I have this catalog from Brenneke is that "credible" enough?

Like I said it is Common Knowledge that Brenneke Slugs can be fired in either Smoothbore or Rifled Barrels. Sorry I couldn't get the whole page in the picture or the whole page of any of the Slug Loads they sell that delineate what barrel type to use. If you will take my word for it? Some Brenneke Slugs (the serious ones) are for Rifled barrels only. All the rest can be fired in either type of barrel. They all now have a coating on them to reduce or eliminate Leading of barrels.(Clean Speed Coating.)

[schutzen-jager]

your original statement quote---- [[ Brenneke Slugs are designed to be used in Rifled barrels or Smoothbores. Any slug that has teh rifling grooves on it is designed to be used in either type of barrel. The grooves are there to collapse as they go thru the choke. If there is on choke that's fine too.

Randy]]

i never disputed that they can not be used in rifled barrels - i am disputing your definitive statements that they were designed for use in rifled barrels - both type of slugs were designed many decades before the use of rifling in shotgun barrels [ with the scarce exception of British paradox guns a century ago ] - try calling Brenneke at (800) 753 9733 + speak to tech service - feel free to use them all you want in rifled barrels if you do not mind the inaccuracy + leading - try going to other shotgun forums + read what is your so called common knowledge of their use in rifled barrels - that is all i have to say on this subject -

[W.R.Buchanan]

So the Brenneke Catalog didn't do it for you? Some of the Brenneke Slugs (The Magnum Crush, Super Sabot 2.75 and 3") are designed specifically for Rifled Barrels. All the rest of their products are good to go for either style barrel.

We do a lot of slug shooting here at Cast Boolits and lots of the results we get here are well in excess of any Ammunition Manufacturer. Lee and Lyman slugs perform better in Rifled barrels than Smoothbore barrels and don't leave any lead behind because the slug never touches the bore, Only the Wad which acts as a Sabot touches the bore so that is one way to stop leading. Another way is to powder coat the slugs like ones done in a pic on the first page.

Most of our work here revolves around getting shotgun slugs to shoot well and not cause problems, and as a group I'd say we are pretty successful.

Here's a group I shot with my A5 with a Hastings Rifled Barrel with Open Sights.. This was my Non Toxic Sabot Slugs, and there are guys here who have done better than that at 100 yards with Lyman Slugs thru Rifled Barrels on their Rem 870's.

Randy

[murf205]

Hey Murf,
I've had the .690 Lee RB mold the longest, so I have the most chrono experience with it. Mine cast at .685 and usually weigh 485 grains. My favorite load is a BPI load in their LB12 wad, a kind of double-ended brush wad, over 25 grains of Green Dot. These are rated at 1250 fps, but the load data doesn't specify a barrel length. I find they're actually a little over that in a 28 inch barrel, and more like 1175 fps in an 18 inch tactical barrel. I've loaded much hotter loads with these .685 Lee RBs, with velocities over 1400 fps in the short barrel guns. They are very stout shooting, to say the least; great bear loads, though! These are extreme overkill for anything less, though.
The .735s are much heavier, of course. Most of my loads have aimed for 1150-1200 fps, and chrono testing out of the USH seem to match the load data I've gotten from "twin loads" of equal shot weight from the Lyman Manual. That's a slightly shorter barrel, but with a slug (RB) instead of shot, so somewhat less resistance---seems to even out. I've noticed that if I tone it down slightly and go for 1000-1050 fps (subsonic) loads, accuracy is even better and recoil is (oddly enough!) quite a bit less. That's basically the ballistics of a Brown Bess musket, which will still blow through nearly anything.

Thanks for the info. I like the round ball concept because of (1) the accuracy and success that everybody seems to get with them and (2) the fact that they are a RB, stabilization at lower speeds is not so much a factor since they are as long as they are wide! Important for me to tone the loads down, is the fact that I have had both shoulders replaced and I want to keep shooting but not having to have another shoulder joint. It made the Merkel 470 Nitro I used to load for my shooting partner a fond memory!

[FullTang]

Thanks for the info. I like the round ball concept because of (1) the accuracy and success that everybody seems to get with them and (2) the fact that they are a RB, stabilization at lower speeds is not so much a factor since they are as long as they are wide! Important for me to tone the loads down, is the fact that I have had both shoulders replaced and I want to keep shooting but not having to have another shoulder joint. It made the Merkel 470 Nitro I used to load for my shooting partner a fond memory!

The .735 RBs are kind of idiot-proof for rifled barrels (and not bad for smooth bore, either), whereas most slugs require careful selection of other components (wads, cards, powder, etc.) But, they are heavy and the recoil can be brutal at the velocities I think of as typical for shotguns, 1200-1350 fps, not to mention "slug velocities" like 1500-1600 fps. Not recommended for anyone with shoulder problems! However, they do work just fine at lower velocities, and the recoil at 1000 fps is not bad at all.