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Thread: Bullet choice for LCR 327 fed

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
    I like the marketing of this round if it actually delivers:
    https://www.federalpremium.com/handg...D327HS1+H.html

    I would like to try "duplicating" the 'concept' using cast bullets.
    I think what Whiterabbit hopes to duplicate with cast bullets is adequate performance with acceptable recoil.

    The problem is that the terms adequate and acceptable are subjective and performance (I don't dare say "stopping power") and even recoil are ill-defined. A couple examples might bring these terms into better focus.

    There's some consensus that a commercial "target" wadcutter load in a .38 Special snubby provides adequate performance and acceptable recoil. (See, for example, this discussion.) Performance data for a target WC from a .38 Special snubby looks something like this:



    Penetration (16") and Defense Wound Mass (25 grams) quantify bullet performance and Power Factor (96) gives some sense of recoil.

    For perspective, here's the FBI load from a .38 Special snubby (assuming expansion as intended):



    From a snubby and against against a 4LD barrier, the FBI load is not likely to expand to 0.59". But a smaller diameter but deeper wound cavity would not much change the predicted 33 grams of wound mass. And given the FBI load's reputation for reliability, 33 grams is most certainly "adequate."

    But what about recoil? How does a power factor of 96 for the target wadcutter compare to the power factor of 127 for the FBI load? At a minimum, 127/96 = 1.32. In other words, the FBI load would have about 32% more recoil than the a target WC fired from the same gun. But according to Hatcher, the Power Factor should probably be squared to get recoil energy. So, a more accurate comparison might be (127 x 127) / (96 x 96) = 1.75.

    So, how do the .327 Federal loads suggested compare to the two "classic" .38 Special snubby?

    SOS's "riveted" 327 WC might look something like this (assuming expanded diameter of 0.48" and penetration like a WC):



    Penetration is adequate, wound mass is in the same league as the FBI load from a snubby, but over twice the recoil (151 x 151) / (96 x 96) = 2.47) of a .38 target WC. Fierce! But not the low recoil concept Whiterabbit was looking for.

    My guess is that SOS's riveted WC gives much better performance than indicated above. In that case, maybe a 117 grain cast HP at, say, 1000 f/s might come much closer to the low recoil concept Whiterabbit is after.
    Last edited by pettypace; 06-29-2022 at 10:20 PM.
    "Totalitarianism demands, in fact, the continuous alteration of the past, and in the long run probably demands a disbelief in the very existence of objective truth. --George Orwell

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I'm sure his 117gr wadcutter does better than that. For example, Lucky Gunner's closest test was the 100gr Speer Gold dot from the LCR. It left at 1266 fps, expanded to .51", and penetrated 16.1". It was the best performing cartridge and load of the test, even out doing the 357 magnum 135gr Gold dot.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Pettypace, nice work. Thanks for the analysis and comparisons.

    I’ll be the first vouch that my mean 117’s are very boisterous! But the LCR has a shape that fits my hands well and that keeps it shootable for me….for now….until sometime in the future when I need to tone it down a bit.

    That’s a great thing about casting and loading. You get to taylor your loads to your wants/needs. Need less recoil? You can do that.
    "Time and money don't do you a bit of good until you spend them." - My Dad

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    I missed the part about full potential without as much recoil and noise! That’s like saying you want to get into orbit without all that muss and fuss of a launch! You can back of on bullet weight to reduce recoil, and slow down the MV to reduce noise, but where’s the fun in that? If I want “pleasant” I shoot 32 S&W Long, even in my custom made S&W K327. To fulfill potential of the chambering, I accept recoil and noise as a given. I can get to a happy medium with lighter (95-105 gr) bullets and milder powder charges, usually W231. If I go full blown magnum, it’s 118-125 gr bullets over a healthy charge of Accurate #7 or #9.
    "It aint easy being green!"

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
    I like the marketing of this round if it actually delivers:
    https://www.federalpremium.com/handg...D327HS1+H.html
    Note that in "marketing" this "Premium Personal Defense" round, Federal completely fails to mention the two "critical wounding components for handgun ammunition," namely depth of penetration and permanent cavity volume (or effective wound mass). (See "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness") Maybe it just slipped their collective minds. Or is it possible they at Federal honestly believe bullet drop at 100 yards is more important for your average civilian self defense scenario?

    But Brassfetcher tested that exact same load against both bare 10% ballistic gelatin and fully-clothed gelatin.

    In the bare gel test, Brassfetcher got 12.3" of penetration and an expanded diameter of 0.45". The corresponding effective wound mass (using MacPherson's calculations) wouldn't be much over 20 grams.

    Against heavily clothed gelatin, Brassfetcher measured 14.9" of penetration with an expanded diameter of 0.42". MacPherson's calculation for effective wound mass here gives about 23 grams or about the same as a target wadcutter from a .38 snubby.
    Last edited by pettypace; 06-30-2022 at 10:16 PM.
    "Totalitarianism demands, in fact, the continuous alteration of the past, and in the long run probably demands a disbelief in the very existence of objective truth. --George Orwell

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check