Snyders JerkyInline FabricationRepackboxWideners
Load DataRotoMetals2MidSouth Shooters SupplyLee Precision
Titan Reloading Reloading Everything
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Levergun reliability, lessons learned

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy

    oconeedan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Lake Oconee Ga
    Posts
    323

    Levergun reliability, lessons learned

    One of my favorite rifles, a 2006 1895 stainless, has had an issue from time to time with "click, no bang", usually at a bad time.
    Many years ago, I removed the little spring that forces the rear piece of the firing pin, thinking it was causing too much drag. The 2 piece firing pin safety still worked as it should. It seemed to have fixed my problem, until recently.
    Fast forward to last year, I came across a deal on CCI 34 primers. So, I bought a bunch of it. It is designed for military cartridges, and I have those rifles too. Hey, the 45-70 gov't was once a military cartridge too, right? Anyway, these primers are supposed to be harder cup to prevent slam firing.
    The "click, no bang" problem reared it's ugly head again when I was aiming at a coyote. After that, the rifle went into the safe for the remainder of the deer season for lack of trust. The 444 needed some exercise, anyway.
    So here is what I have learned since then, I thought some here may find it useful. And if anyone has anything to contribute, please do. I am not a gun smith, but I do my own trigger jobs, etc., and have done so for 30 plus years since I started shooting IHMSA silhouettes.
    I found the cartridge that didn't fire, months later. I had ejected it for another round, and came back after hunting season to find it. It had a very light firing pin dimple.
    Here are some things I have learned.

    1- Dirty rifle. The bolt, firing pin channel, and firing pin were clean as a whistle. The gun, bore, and chamber are relatively clean. What I found dirty was the top of the locking bolt, that part that pushes up on the rear section of the firing pin. It had some sticky powder residue that may have been causing drag on the firing pin. I don't have photo, but you have to remove the rifle bolt to see it. Make sure it is clean on top.

    2- Dirty brass. I am a lazy hand loader. I like to resize brass, throw into the vibratory cleaner, remove, and load. What I found after studying my problem opened my eyes. There was crud built up on some of the rims, on top. I assume it is powder residue, but could also be lube from sizing and crud from old tumbling media. The vibratory cleaner doesn't clean the top of the rims very well. I am guessing the crud on top of the rim could cushion the blow of the firing pin, which could be part of the problem. Not to be ignored, the primer pockets were dirty, and could be cushioning the blow of the firing pin as well.

    3- Possibly a weak main spring (hammer spring)? I bought a spring "kit" made by Palo Verde Gunworks, sold at Brownell's. The idea was to go to a heavier main spring and help the reliability issue with this rifle. A neat little kit consisting of a mainspring, and various washers and bushings, there are 7 different combinations. I loaded up a box of primed brass, no powder or bullets, primer only. I used a digital trigger pull gauge to measure both hammer pull, and trigger pull. I found that every combination of this kit was weaker than the original main spring. In other words, this kit will give you lighter trigger pulls at the expense of weaker hammer power. This may be ok for some applications, but not for me. The original main spring gets reinstalled. I ended up putting in my own brass washer with the original mainspring to give a little extra hammer power.

    I have not concluded all of my problems are gone, but I think they are. Range time will tell.

    What I found, specifically, is that the hammer pull (not trigger pull) required to make CCI 34 pop, unreliably, is 3lb 4oz. Any less, it won't pop.
    With the stock main spring, the hammer pull is 4lb 8oz. With my added washer, my hammer pull is boosted to 4lb 14oz, and the measured trigger pull is 3lb 1oz. If I added any more washers, or a thicker washer, the trigger pull starts to stack up and get unacceptable to me.

    So there you go. At this point, my rifle has a decent trigger at 3lb 1oz, and should be reliable. And I will be looking carefully at the top of the rims from now on, as well as dirty primer pockets.

    Dan

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    1,949
    I bought a Marlin 1895 new in 1982 and it has misfired once in the time I’ve owned it, which was proven to be a bad primer. With that said, I always felt the hammer strike was on the light side, because the FP dimple is the smallest of any rifle I own, even other Marlins.
    Last edited by HWooldridge; 06-19-2022 at 02:42 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eureka MT
    Posts
    2,528
    I only have four center fire leverguns. Two 92 Wins a Marlin 1894 and a Rossi 92 clone. None of them has ever failed to fire.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Hick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Winnemucca, NV
    Posts
    1,606
    My two win 94's have no difficulty with CCI #34 primers (or with any others, for that matter)
    Hick: Iron sights!

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    brisbane ,qld,australia
    Posts
    2,146
    I have a Marlin 1895 ,bought new in the 70s......always had light strike ,IMHO ,the hammer is too light....some primers it doesnt like at all.(1 in 20 need a recock of the hammer).....Very simple cure...I use pistol primers...(BTW,in my opinion,if the hammer spring was any stronger ,hammer would be painful to thumb cock)

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Cecilia, Kentucky
    Posts
    6,785
    Probably the lug on the top of the lever is worn or the lever slightly bent, causing the locking block to not rise far enough, or wear on the top of the locking block where it touches the firing pin, causing the locking block to not fully engage the firing pin extension. If you cycle the action briskly it’ll force the parts more, but a soft cycle and it likely could be reproduced. A 1 piece firing pin or tuneup of the action would remedy it if it’s this.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lewiston, Idaho
    Posts
    2,738
    I have had several Marlins come in with light hammer blows. Most had weak springs but there were a few with bent levers which cause the firing pin block problem. I have often wondered how hard someone has to pull on a lever to bend it.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    brisbane ,qld,australia
    Posts
    2,146
    I dont think you d call my hammer spring weak....its almost painful to thumb cock,compared to a Winchester.....the guns certainly not worn,Ive owned it from new ,and have washed any heavy oil out of the bolt ,and reoiled with sewing machine oil.....cant get much lighter than that.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master


    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Southern France by way of Interior Bush Alaska
    Posts
    5,293
    I have a 45/70 that I bought new in the 1980s. It had a hard life as my go to gun in Alaska.
    A couple of years ago, it started misfiring. I thought it might be due my shooting BP rounds. I thoroughly cleaned the bolt, but the problem wasn’t solved.

    I asked for advice here and was advised to replace the firing pin with a one piece type. I was hard for me to get one over here, but I finally did, but haven’t gotten around to installing it yet. I suggest you consider doing the same thing. They’re are kits with a new spring that are not that expensive in the US.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Eastern WY
    Posts
    1,967
    I have not had fail to fire problems with my Marlin's in 45-70 or 444, BUT I have a 336 in 32 Special that gave me problems. I finally tracked it down to very long(too long) headspace and relatively thin rims on my 32 Special brass. Wolf makes an extra power mainspring for the Marlin's and that worked for the .32 Special. I have installed the one piece firing pin in several rifles and I usually put the extra power Wolf mainspring in any new to me Marlin's. I also ran into fail to fire with a Savage 99 .358 (factory). Again a very long chamber (excessive headspace?) and new Winchester brass that gauged under the SAAMI minimum caused the problem. My Starline brass has rims closer to the SAAMI max (a good thing) than my older Winchester and Remington brass. Maximum headspace and minimum cartridges can also create some problems, particularly in rifles with lighter firing pin strikes.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    N. E. Ohio
    Posts
    1,574
    Try tearing down the bolt and cleaning it. Then lubricate it. A dirty bolt can cause enough drag on the firing pin to cause your problem.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master


    missionary5155's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Temporarily near Orlando FL
    Posts
    7,133
    Missed the "Stainless" word in the OP.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,950
    I wouldn't discount those CCI #34 primers as a major contributing factor in failures to fire: Don't ask how I know this!

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy

    oconeedan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Lake Oconee Ga
    Posts
    323
    Thanks for your replies. To those who have never had light primer strike problems, I'm happy for you. This post is for those that have, and those that do.

    I think my problem is solved, it will take some shooting to make me feel fuzzy inside. I was just sharing what I found when studying my problem. I have some boxes of ammo loaded up, and just need some cooler weather to go play.

    I think the one piece firing pin may be a good thing, and will consider it.

    Also, my lever is not bent in any way. And the action is very smooth, in every way. I bought the rifle, I think with only 6 rounds fired, and I may have fired it , just guessing, 6 or 8 hundred rounds. ALL cast bullets and tame loads. I don't keep count. I have killed quite a few deer and hogs with it.

    Maven: what are your experiences with CCI 34, it sounds like you have had issues with it? While this may have been my problem, I am stubbornly trying to overcome it. I have a lot of it on hand.

    Thanks, Dan

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Space Coast, FL
    Posts
    2,324
    Pull the aft firing pin and reassemble, then hammer back and see if block rises internally to correct height flush in firing pin bore in bolt. If not maybe your not bent in any way lever may need a bent.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,950
    Dan, Years ago a friend and I purchased a large quantity of CCI #34 LR primers (1995 production) for a decent price. However, there were lots of problems with them in most of my production guns (failure to fire) and maybe even one milsurp rifle (It wasn't the rifle). I think they were cheap because they weren't first run since I sometimes got 3 - 4 failures/100 primers. Oddly enough, my Ruger #1 had no problem with them, but in my Marlin #336's, I honestly don't remember (Sorry!).

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy

    oconeedan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Lake Oconee Ga
    Posts
    323
    Gtek, a good thing to try.
    Maven, thanks for your information.
    I am having a hard time uploading photos. I did find the cartridge that failed to go bang, and the firing pin dimple was very light, and obviously not a problem with that primer. I doubt any primer would work with a dimple that light.
    I will take notice if the CCI 34 give me any future problems, as I have loaded several kinds of ammo with it. No problems so far except the light strike I mentioned.
    If I do have more problems, I will look further if necessary. But like I said, I am pretty sure I have worked out my problem.

    Thanks, Dan

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check