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Thread: Keylock-era Smith & Wesson revolvers

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
    For historical perspective my 625-3 is five groove with very shallow grooves for a revolver. This allows for a fair amount of skidding with heavier bullets and they have to be hard or they won’t shoot if the bullet is heavy like a 452423. Lighter lead bullets shoot best and it shoots jacketed very well.

    A very satisfactory but slightly odd revolver. Has to be catered to but a very accurate and useful gun. Throats are .4515.”
    I believe you missed a rifling groove. S&W used the same rifling criteria in their ACP revolvers as the Model 1917. At least until the model 325, if I remember correctly.

    When I get home, I will double check my ACP revolvers.

    Kevin
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  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Could be. I’ll double check too.

  3. #23
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    You are quite right as I looked at the revolver and checked my dimensional notes as clearly I hadn’t looked in awhile. Six shallow grooves with groove diameter of .451.”

    So much for fallible memory. In any event I weighed in to suggest that at some point in time these revolvers were better dimensionally to what is being measured now. It would be better if it has more substantial lands in the rifling….my 1911 barrels make this rifling land height look shallow.

    Tradition supposedly was to run to the shallow side to prevent low velocity jacketed bullets from sticking in the barrel. I think they overdid it but I get by through adopting specific loading features. That slight bit of warts aside it is an accurate and useful revolver.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
    You are quite right as I looked at the revolver and checked my dimensional notes as clearly I hadn’t looked in awhile. Six shallow grooves with groove diameter of .451.”

    So much for fallible memory. In any event I weighed in to suggest that at some point in time these revolvers were better dimensionally to what is being measured now. It would be better if it has more substantial lands in the rifling….my 1911 barrels make this rifling land height look shallow.

    Tradition supposedly was to run to the shallow side to prevent low velocity jacketed bullets from sticking in the barrel. I think they overdid it but I get by through adopting specific loading features. That slight bit of warts aside it is an accurate and useful revolver.
    The rifling criteria was specified by the U S Army and S&W continued to use it for nearly a century. It took me a few years before I got lead bullets to shoot as accurately as hardball.

    Mine shoot best with .454 lead bullets.

    Kevin
    Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.

    I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.

    Success doesn't make me happy, being happy is what allows me to be successful.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master fourarmed's Avatar
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    Beecherkid, I considered reaming to .454, but changed my mind, for several reasons. First, the readily available Manson guided reamer set (which I have) reams .4525. Second, if I could ream to .454 or bigger, it would probably restrict me to using .45 Colt bullets. Third, my pal the Smith and Wesson mechanic had a hunk of Douglas air gauged .4505 barrel that he put on for me. It made up just a little over four inches. I am breaking it in now with GI ball and GI match 185 JSWC. The last two groups I got today, the ball put six in 3" with four in under an inch, and the wadcutters put all six in 1.5". At 25 yds, I just can't do any better.

  6. #26
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by fourarmed View Post
    Beecherkid, I considered reaming to .454, but changed my mind, for several reasons. First, the readily available Manson guided reamer set (which I have) reams .4525. Second, if I could ream to .454 or bigger, it would probably restrict me to using .45 Colt bullets. Third, my pal the Smith and Wesson mechanic had a hunk of Douglas air gauged .4505 barrel that he put on for me. It made up just a little over four inches. I am breaking it in now with GI ball and GI match 185 JSWC. The last two groups I got today, the ball put six in 3" with four in under an inch, and the wadcutters put all six in 1.5". At 25 yds, I just can't do any better.
    That sounds great, I'm glad you found an answer to your problem.

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Once you get it to shoot it makes a very good field carry piece.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master fourarmed's Avatar
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    I spent a day shooting several different cast bullets through it. So far, nothing looks fantastic, but I'm beginning to think that I can't shoot well enough with such a short sight radius to judge. My pal with the Ransom rest lives 100 miles away, and doesn't do well in hot weather, so it may be a while before I know.

  9. #29
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    My 325-PD shoots pretty good with its short barrel even though the chambers measure .4525" and the bore is a solid .453".

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

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  10. #30
    Boolit Master fourarmed's Avatar
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    If that group was shot handheld at 25 yards, I am impressed.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    I have a 3" Model 60 and a 6" 686 plus and they shoot like gangbusters with .357" boolits. Hope the new barrel works out.
    Last edited by Cosmic_Charlie; 07-15-2022 at 04:58 PM.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by stubshaft View Post
    My 325-PD shoots pretty good with its short barrel even though the chambers measure .4525" and the bore is a solid .453".

    Click image for larger version. 

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    With a medium level charge and 20/1 alloy you can get away with that. My Model 24 slugged at .432" and i shoot .431" out of it.
    "If everyone is thinking the same thing it means someone is not thinking"

    "A rat became the unit of currency"

  13. #33
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    I had a similar incident. My S&W 610-3 revolver shoots light out one of my favorites! I had purchased it second hand and didn’t have the lock keys, never gave them a thought . I was shooting in a silhouette match and it locked up, just out of the blue ! I had put thousands of rounds thru it with no issues. Needless to say the lock has been removed. I hate the lock and remove all of them.
    Keep your powder dry and watch your six !!

  14. #34
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stubshaft View Post
    My 325-PD shoots pretty good with its short barrel even though the chambers measure .4525" and the bore is a solid .453".

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	325 target.jpg 
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    Dang Stub, that's pretty good whether it's off the bags or standing on your hind legs. Care to share that load, I couldn't read the writing on the target.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Txcowboy52 View Post
    I had a similar incident. My S&W 610-3 revolver shoots light out one of my favorites! I had purchased it second hand and didn’t have the lock keys, never gave them a thought . I was shooting in a silhouette match and it locked up, just out of the blue ! I had put thousands of rounds thru it with no issues. Needless to say the lock has been removed. I hate the lock and remove all of them.
    All it takes is to file down the little protruding nub on the inside of the flag part of the lock, this is the only thing that locks the revolver.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    fourarmed, show us a pic of that gun with the new Douglas barrel. You know how we love those pics!
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  17. #37
    Boolit Master Rodfac's Avatar
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    My S&W 69 has a 0.429 bore and 0.430 chamber throats and shoots quite well.
    Same with both of mine. Good/great accuracy with LSWCs (429421, 429244 gc & 429215 gc all with ACWW alloy). ~2" at 25 yds, rested.

    Rod
    Rod

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf205 View Post
    PC or lube? I have the same results with my 625-3 @.452 throats but sized to .4505 powder coated or lubed and a .451 barrel. My concoction is range scrap + 2% tin. Like the old saying, "fit is king". I have not clocked the load that really shines but MY load is 6.7 grs of
    accurate #5 in 45 auto rim cases and a 253 gr Accurate Molds boolit so I might be bumping it up a mite when it hits the forcing cone. At any rate, it is a good shooter in the newer rifled barrel at least.
    Simple lube through a sizer.
    "If everyone is thinking the same thing it means someone is not thinking"

    "A rat became the unit of currency"

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check