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Thread: No use for FMJ

  1. #61
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Right, they are 10 cents a bullet now, and most I'm seeing is more like 14 cents. At the same time, right now on midway usa you can buy a "frangible" bullet for 9 cents each, or a soft point for 11 cents each. Wolfdog's question was why would he shoot FMJ right now when a soft or polymer point bullet is the best for his purposes. I have to agree, it makes no sense right now to buy FMJ for 10 cents each, when you can buy soft points for 11 cents each. In the future I suspect FMJ will cost less again, but it may be some time now that there is hardly any brass or bullets being sold from the military.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 06-21-2022 at 12:01 PM.

  2. #62
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    Other than indoor ranges that ban hot rifle cartridges that could damage the bullet traps, I’ve never heard of ranges banning lead core FMJs. I have been to indoor ranges that (foolishly, IMO) don’t allow lead bullets out of concern for airborne particulates.

  3. #63
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    I like fmj but for informal pistol shooting and in .32acp and .380 actual carry. For tactical rifle .223 or .308 I think fmj is quite useful. For hunting fmj isn’t particularly useful. I recently acquired a 7mm-08 A Bolt for hopefully harvesting a big doe and fmj is non existent in that caliber.

  4. #64
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    About the time Wofdog91 came to be the only plastic tipped bullets were Nosler Ballistic Tips and folks ran hot and cold on them. Great BC but came to pieces when they were still flying fast. But the learning curve improved with the bullet manufacturers and we got the high BC AND controlled expansion. What's not to like and shoot.

    I like me some cast bullets but it's hard to ignore those high BC, plastic tipped bullets at long distance on game animals.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsizemore View Post
    About the time Wofdog91 came to be the only plastic tipped bullets were Nosler Ballistic Tips and folks ran hot and cold on them.
    When they first came out, Nosler advertised them as a match hollow point with the plastic tip to keep the end of the bullet
    from getting dinged up in the magazine.
    They were thin, had rapid expansion, and only recommended them for smaller, thin skinned game hunting.

    Since they looked cool, were very accurate, and cost the same per box of 100 as most other jacketed bullets-
    I shot a bunch of them in my .270 Rem700.

    When they went from a box of 100 to a box of 50 for the same price as 100 Sierra or Hornady, I quit buying them.
    Then, I got away from the .270 in favor of .30-06, and got into casting .30cal.
    But they were fun while it lasted.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daekar View Post
    I have never seen much point in bullets which are no good for anything except hitting a target plate or paper. Despite the fact that targets are the vast majority of my shooting, why on earth would I choose to zero and practice with a load which I couldn't use in real situations?
    Very interesting thoughts above because the poster is very smart and agrees with me! I have always been perplexed by those who load RN bullets in handguns (accuracy and taking small game being understood exceptions) when a flatter nose can be made to function and shoot as well with much better terminal performance. As for FMJ in 5.56 or 7.62, I wouldn’t hunt big game with them but have seen what M193 and M80 does to humans. Green tip M855 (SS109) isn’t as destructive as M193, but I wouldn’t feel poorly armed with either in the zombie apocalypse.
    Tony

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsizemore View Post

    I like me some cast bullets but it's hard to ignore those high BC, plastic tipped bullets at long distance on game animals.
    I never could get into hunting at super long ranges where you need a telescope to shoot the unsuspecting animal the next mountain over..then hike 4 hours to the kill.

    Just doesn't seem sporting to me if you are far enough away that they can't smell you..and you are too far away to be seen..at all..by the naked eye.

    To me..stalking an animal is when you are close enough that it could see, hear and smell you. If you can take him then..then you earned it. Shooting a critter near a mile away?

    That's why I like safari guns and doubles regulated in YARDAGE.... Them big animals are close enough to come visit you....

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    I never could get into hunting at super long ranges where you need a telescope to shoot the unsuspecting animal the next mountain over..then hike 4 hours to the kill.

    Just doesn't seem sporting to me if you are far enough away that they can't smell you..and you are too far away to be seen..at all..by the naked eye.

    To me..stalking an animal is when you are close enough that it could see, hear and smell you. If you can take him then..then you earned it. Shooting a critter near a mile away?

    That's why I like safari guns and doubles regulated in YARDAGE.... Them big animals are close enough to come visit you....
    It's just another way to do it and another skill set. Honestly I feel like it makes to do alot more then traditional hunting as far as knowing you gun inside and out you bullets, how they function,the animal anatomy, wind reading ect. Lotta stuff I see "traditional" hunters do just plain wouldn't fly with long range. Spotted and stalked a dozen or so deer, haven't taken one yet, just nothing in it for me honestly. Play the wind move quiet,pretty simple.
    I've gotten within 25 of a few and with a gun it's just like " egh" .Long range different, ball game.
    That's just me though
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfdog91 View Post
    It's just another way to do it and another skill set. Honestly I feel like it makes to do alot more then traditional hunting as far as knowing you gun inside and out you bullets, how they function,the animal anatomy, wind reading ect. Lotta stuff I see "traditional" hunters do just plain wouldn't fly with long range. Spotted and stalked a dozen or so deer, haven't taken one yet, just nothing in it for me honestly. Play the wind move quiet,pretty simple.
    I've gotten within 25 of a few and with a gun it's just like " egh" .Long range different, ball game.
    That's just me though
    That kind of goes against your first post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfdog91 View Post
    Am I the only one who never really buys or reloads FMJ ? Don't really have a purpose for it since all my shooting just kinda falls back to trying to put a round in a critter. Dont like having to change my zeros ( nothing like missing a coyote because your zeroed for FMJ but slapped in a VMAX , ask me how I know lol) all the time and that whole " good nuff pie plate accuracy dont still well with me) so I just load stuff I can actually hunt with. I mean don't get me wrong you can hunt with FMJ.....but head shots are frowned upon apparently lol.
    Long range hunting or long range competition requires significant wind reading abilities coupled with the ability get on the knobs for both elevation and wind. That only can be learned by significant trigger time.

    FMJ's like M72/M118 USGI 173gr cal. bullets can still be found for a lot less than true match bullets and out of a 308 they will stay supersonic at a 1,000 yards. They shoot well enough to take you to mid-level master class in NRA HighPower. The M193 55 grain FMJ's really get pushed around by the wind past 300 yards but they can be a great wind reading learning tools. The M855 62 green trip does better with wind but they are flyer prone due to QC issues with the steel cores.

    Once you get used to adjusting the sights for conditions and yardage having multiple zero's for different loads becomes second nature. I have more target rifles than I have high end scopes so most scopes get moved around a lot with nothing more than dialing in the settings for that rifle and that load. I can get them to repeat POI within 1/2 MOA on the Picatinny rails so the ring spacing the same for rifle to rifle.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 06-22-2022 at 12:23 AM.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    That kind of goes against your first post.



    Long range hunting or long range competition requires significant wind reading abilities coupled with the ability get on the knobs for both elevation and wind. That only can be learned by significant trigger time.

    FMJ's like M72/M118 USGI 173gr cal. bullets can still be found for a lot less than true match bullets and out of a 308 they will stay supersonic at a 1,000 yards. They shoot well enough to take you to mid-level master class in NRA HighPower. The M193 55 grain FMJ's really get pushed around by the wind past 300 yards but they can be a great wind reading learning tools. The M855 62 green trip does better with wind but they are flyer prone due to QC issues with the steel cores.

    Once you get used to adjusting the sights for conditions and yardage having multiple zero's for different loads becomes second nature. I have more target rifles than I have high end scopes so most scopes get moved around a lot with nothing more than dialing in the settings for that rifle and that load. I can get them to repeat POI within 1/2 MOA on the Picatinny rails so the ring spacing the same for rifle to rifle.
    I'd have to disagree. Personally I've never had much luck loading the cheaper stuff. I could get the stuff I had good enough for plinking but not to where I'd feel comfortable to have it for hunting accuracy. Also the cheap FMJ's I'd get always seems so finicky in my rifles. Honestly by the time I got them shooting good usually I was just feeling like I could have just gotten a box of the hunting stuff my gun likes and just be done with it lol. But yeah I just buy and shoot whatever I hunt with. Helps me learn that bullet that load and how my gun reacts to them. Will also say it does mess with my anxiety ha ing mutipe loads for one rifle lol. I'm forgetful and I'll stand there looking at my gun like " did zero it for this load or that load ? " And generally it'll eat at me till I go out with. Both and see which is zeroed. Lost a few friendly match's because of that so I'm Abit antsy now lol ! But that's just me
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  11. #71
    Boolit Master Wolfdog91's Avatar
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    That being said , idk I might try playing with FMJ again just because, I mean why not lol
    A wise man will try to learn as much from a fool as he will from a master, for all have something to teach- Uncle Iroh
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfdog91 View Post
    I'll stand there looking at my gun like " did zero it for this load or that load ? "
    I keep a small notebook in my range box just for that sort of thing.
    In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
    In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.


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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfdog91 View Post
    I'd have to disagree. Personally I've never had much luck loading the cheaper stuff. I could get the stuff I had good enough for plinking but not to where I'd feel comfortable to have it for hunting accuracy. Also the cheap FMJ's I'd get always seems so finicky in my rifles. Honestly by the time I got them shooting good usually I was just feeling like I could have just gotten a box of the hunting stuff my gun likes and just be done with it lol. But yeah I just buy and shoot whatever I hunt with. Helps me learn that bullet that load and how my gun reacts to them. Will also say it does mess with my anxiety ha ing mutipe loads for one rifle lol. I'm forgetful and I'll stand there looking at my gun like " did zero it for this load or that load ? " And generally it'll eat at me till I go out with. Both and see which is zeroed. Lost a few friendly match's because of that so I'm Abit antsy now lol ! But that's just me
    I tape the zero info on the stock and I keep a data log. Some rifles have data and zeros for 5 or 6 loads. That scope may get moved to several rifles. Easy to keep track of. Using a good scope is no different than using a micrometer. You adjust it to the settings you need. On the scope I tape the rifle description that the rifle that the dials are set zero - zero for elevation and windage. It's nothing more than simple record keeping same as keeping a score book. I do the same for the match rifle iron sights but they never fail like scope will.

    I had a total of 50 National Match M-14's that would mostly hold sub 1 1/2 MOA for 10 shot groups with stand M118 and mostly would do a 1 MOA plus or minus a 1/4" with M118LR. Out of scoped bolt guns both would do better. The only Green tip I have shot has been GI issue. It tended to shoot really well except for the one or two flyers that happened with most 10 shot groups. Out of AR match rifles the M193 55 grain FMJ's are solid 1 MOA for me. With match bullet the same rifles would be 1/2 MOA or better. The Hornady 55 grain FMJ's shoot OK for me and are not in the least bit finicky.

    That being said I have never shot any of the steel case .223. I have heard reports from trusted shooters that it can be pretty grim for accuracy.

    Unless the gun/ammo combo is really bad it's still trigger time, wind reading ability and the ability to adjust the sights that will make or break you as a shooter. There is a time and a place for hold off corrections but those times and places are rare for serious long range shooters.

    With NRA match rifle shooters it's common that they use the same rifle for both iron sight and optics matches. Switching back on forth daily is not a problem. That's what you have the two sighters for.

    When David Tubb was first promoting the Tubb 2000 rifle I watched him do a complete take down of his rifle including removing the barrel between the 300 yard and 600 yard event at the Nationals at Camp Perry. If I remember correctly his first sighter at 600 yards was a 9. Second was a 10 or an X. Taking the rifle apart did not hinder him from winning the National title that year.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 06-22-2022 at 03:22 AM.
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  14. #74
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    Blamo Ammo in FMJ...is just plain FUN!

    Blow some holes in the air. Make some NOISE!



    You want to see a kid really smile? Put a 30-round clip in a semi-auto and tell him to empty it. He will figure it out...and come back for more!
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfdog91 View Post
    It's just another way to do it and another skill set. Honestly I feel like it makes to do alot more then traditional hunting as far as knowing you gun inside and out you bullets, how they function,the animal anatomy, wind reading ect. Lotta stuff I see "traditional" hunters do just plain wouldn't fly with long range. Spotted and stalked a dozen or so deer, haven't taken one yet, just nothing in it for me honestly. Play the wind move quiet,pretty simple.
    I've gotten within 25 of a few and with a gun it's just like " egh" .Long range different, ball game.
    That's just me though
    For long range shooting.. I never felt great about using an animal solely as a target.. seems unfair.. since they basically have to be all in.. and the human has no skin in the game. Want that long range target that is semi random.. go hang a plate a mile away from a tree limb.. this gets you wind play.. sun.. etc.. and you are on even terms with the target... just me.. imho.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    For long range shooting.. I never felt great about using an animal solely as a target.. seems unfair.. since they basically have to be all in.. and the human has no skin in the game. Want that long range target that is semi random.. go hang a plate a mile away from a tree limb.. this gets you wind play.. sun.. etc.. and you are on even terms with the target... just me.. imho.
    It may be a game to us, but it is deadly serious for the animal on the receiving end.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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  17. #77
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    I shoot action pistol events. I had planned to switch all my pistols to cast boolits, but I have to many fmj and cmj 40's.
    I stockpiled 40's twenty years ago and I'm still shooting them.
    I was going to switch 45 cast , but a guy at a match this year was selling all his plated bullets for cheap.

    Now 9mm, I been casting and shooting about 800 a month during the spring and summer.

  18. #78
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    Most of the land I hunt over is farm land. Critters that eat a farmers crops are a nuisance and cut into profits. Being "fair" in the hunt is all well and good but cuts into your time and efficiency. Edible game is shared with the local food bank. Farmer and hungry are happy. I get to hunt over a bunch of land and shoot some really accurate guns.

  19. #79
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    It's what i shoot in my AR15 Sporter rifles, and used to shoot mostly in my 9mm's until i got powder coated cast to work nicely. Back when it was cheap i shot a good deal of .308 ball ammo too. And come think of it, that is what my AK's get fed. Military firearms go with fmj hand in hand.
    "If everyone is thinking the same thing it means someone is not thinking"

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
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GC Gas Check