No use for FMJ

[elmacgyver0]

I ONLY load FMJ for suppressed subguns and 223/308.
I was told years ago by a can manufacturer that shooting lead through a can is verboten because of lube and lead buildup.
That is all. Everything else is cast.

That would be because most suppressors were not user serviceable and had to be returned to the manufacturer for cleaning.
I would not buy something I could not service myself.
Fortunately there are better options now, a bit pricey but in my opinion worth it.
I swore I would never own a suppressor if I had to jump thru all the government BS and would wait until they were deregulated, well that dog never hunted.
I finally broke down and ordered one from Silencer Central.
I ordered the newest in the line up, the Banish 46, it will or so they say work on anything .45 cal. on down.
I ordered all the extra goodies to make it work on practically every thing I have.
Things like a Nielson device and pistons.
This thing will probably be a bit bulky on pistols but I'm not going through the BS and wait twice or more times.
I could have done the Form 1 and built my own but it seems they are beginning to frown on that.
I'm sure a commercial unit will be better than what I could come up with anyway, as Dirty Harry said, "A man's got to know his limitations."
I do intend to shoot cast thru it, although they will be powder coated.
If I end up ruining $2000.00 worth of suppressor I will let you know so to save you the anguish.
At this point my suppressor is still in ATF jail.
In other words, I don't have a clue and I'm talking thru my rear at this point.
If I have only one hope it is to live long enough to have at least one range session with it.
At my age you never know, I have recently had a couple friends pass that were several year my junior.
I have been very fortunate so far.

[elmacgyver0]

You know?
I got so wrapped up talking about suppressors.
I forgot my usual sarcastic comment!
Just send your FMJ to me and I will be happy to dispose of them for you!
Sorry about that, almost disappointed you.
I will try to be more careful in the future.

[sharps4590]

I've never bought or loaded a FMJ bullet but, I have fired quite a few. They're all I shoot in semi-auto handguns, for everything and, I don't load for them. As far as I know FMJ's are not legal to hunt with in Missouri.

Of my hunting rifles only 5 get jacketed bullets, two double rifles, one drilling and a 6.5 Swede and my 1903 Mannlicher/Schoenauer. All the rest get cast as do all my revolvers.

[elmacgyver0]

Most of my hunting is done on paper targets and tin cans. Never had a problem with FMJ on these.
In my teens I had great aspirations about being a big game hunter, pith helmet and all.
Well that never happened.
I guess I have gotten a lot less bloodthirsty in my old age, Hell I even rescued a spider out of my backyard water fountain.

[GregLaROCHE]

FMJ's have the opening at the base for the insertion of the core. Hollow point the opening is at the tip for the insertion of the core.

Some actual history of the hollow point match bullet here.









https://www.ssusa.org/content/why-ar...more-accurate/

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/08/2...lets-accurate/

https://www.ccwclasses.net/what-does...l-jacket-mean/

Thanks for those links. They were interesting. I’m always open to learn more details about ballistics. However, I’m not totally on board with the statement, that FMJs increase the life of a firearm. On the other hand, I once had a M1 Carbine that flat out refused to load soft tipped bullets. FMJs no problem.

[gwpercle]

I don't have much use for FMJ either . I mostly shoot cast boolits . I have one model 95 Mauser 7X57 with a "dark" bore that will group only 175 gr. Hornady RN rather well but not cast ... so it gets fed those .
If I want cheap boolits ... I cast them .
Gary

[M-Tecs]

Thanks for those links. They were interesting. I’m always open to learn more details about ballistics. However, I’m not totally on board with the statement, that FMJs increase the life of a firearm. On the other hand, I once had a M1 Carbine that flat out refused to load soft tipped bullets. FMJs no problem.

That part is internet BS.

[Winger Ed.]

that FMJs increase the life of a firearm.

I'd never heard that, but there's no way.
The bearing surface or sides that contact the bore are pretty much the same.
If the very front end is copper or Lead, it won't matter as far as barrel wear.

If you push a Lead tipped SP fast enough, some of the exposed Lead tip might sluff back onto the jacket,
but it won't negatively effect barrel wear.

[bangerjim]

I only buy and load 223 FMJ's. Easy and fast. Those silly little pills cast for 223's are just too hard to handle, pc, and load. I have 3ea) 223 molds and will never cast another! Probably will give them to a friend of mine.

I stocked up on FMJ 233's several years ago for about 4¢ each and have many thousand just waiting to be shoved down those skinny little necks! If I ever need them.

banger

[Daekar]

I have never seen much point in bullets which are no good for anything except hitting a target plate or paper. Despite the fact that targets are the vast majority of my shooting, why on earth would I choose to zero and practice with a load which I couldn't use in real situations? I have some FMJs for old military rifles, but most of those are because they were salvaged from old surplus duds.

I load almost exclusively cast now, and the only thing I don't have some plan to cast for is 223... which for me is a low volume cartridge since I don't need the range very often at all.

[waksupi]

I have seen restrictions on AP and tracers for fire issues. Never on FMJ's. So it's illegal to shoot 9mm and 45 ACP ball while others ammo is OK? I have seen temporarily banning the discharge of firearms for target-shooting or other purposes by anyone not engaged in lawful hunting or out right bans on hunting/camping due to fire conditions but never a FMJ ban only.

The contention arises from ricochets on ranges, that have had housing built in close.

[Geezer in NH]

You could always zero with VMAX (or your preferred hunting projectile) and punch paper with less expensive cast, fmj or plated. I’d think the POI may shift up or down but your group sizes should be reasonably close. JMO.

Agree with this.

All the surplus I shot in me 70 year life were FMJ super practice ammo way cheaper than premium bulleted.

[M-Tecs]

The contention arises from ricochets on ranges, that have had housing built in close.

All bullets have the potential to ricochet. Some are worse than others. Ricochets can be minimized by using frangible or highly explosive varmint bullets. If a range is having ricochets it has really poorly designed berms or the shooter are hitting the well ground before the target. Anyone that has spent much time on a range has seen the bullet grooves in the dirt.

When I was I kid I reloaded for a 7th Cavalry re-enactment group. All the other kids had 22’s. I mostly used a Trapdoor Springfield and a 1873 Colt. One of my classmates wanted to shoot the TD Carbine. We bet a dollar on who got closest to the X ring. It was at 100 yards offhand. I shot a 9. He hit well in front of the target bullet yet the bullet ricocheted in to the X-ring. It was almost a perfect keyhole but it was still in the X-ring so I lost. That lead to a summer of skipping bullets into the target with 22LR, 222 Rem, 243’s, 30/06’s, 38/357’s, 45 Colt and 45/70’s. Cast bullets in the 38/357, 45 Colt and 45/70 ricocheted the worst. That includes M2 Ball. Shooting carp with the 30/06 tracers would almost always ricochet. The yardage was about 75 to 250 yards with about a 100 foot elevation above the water.

I have been an avid prairie dog shooter for 40 plus years and now only shoot very explosive bullets like V-Max's to minimize the potential of a ricochet. Even with those you still hear a zinger once in a while. With the explosive bullet they fragment and lose energy quickly. I gave up on using 22LR for PD's due to the ricochet issue. The 17 HMR with V-max's is much better with 17 grain V-Max's. Most of my better spots are posted and locked due to people using there deer/elk rifles and loads and killing or injury livestock a 1/4 to 3/4 miles away. In one case it was the landowners son-in-law that killed the neighbors registered barrel race horse. The son-in-law could not afford the elk trip he was going on let alone the very expensive barrel horse.

One of the ranges I am a member of uses acoustic targets and the use of V-Max and explosive varmint due to damage to the rubber acoustic targets. Individual ranges can implement whatever rules they see fit. That is much different than being “illegal” to shoot on a state or federal level.

FMJ is frowned on in this area, sparks start forest fires too easily. During bad fire seasons, it's illegal to even shoot.

I can find and I am familiar with state/BLM rules limiting “Target shooters may not use incendiary, exploding, tracer, steel core, steel jacketed or armor piercing ammunition.” But nothing on FMJ’s. I do see some not being aware that all FMJ’s are not AP or Steel Core. M855 Green type has a steel penetrator so that would fall under the limits. M193 55 grain is just standard FMJ like most range 9mm and 45 ACP as are most other FMJ’s. The gunshop that I work at part time literally sells millions of rounds of FMJ’s per year and FMJ constitute the majority of ammo shot at ranges. I can find examples of people confusing FMJ’s with AP, however, the only time I can find state or federal limits on shooting FMJ are when ALL outdoor target shooting on public land is stopped due to fire conditions. During really dry condition I have seen the hunting seasons closed. That has nothing to do with FMJ's.

In your statement please clarify is its just FMJ's that becomes illegal or all shooting outdoors? If I am selling a product that is illegal under some conditions I really should know that?

[jaysouth]

I have 4 teenager grand kids with ARs. We reload lots and lots of FMJ 55gr. BT for range blammo.

I also have a
pile of 150 gr btfmj (hornady 3037) bought "right" almost 20 years ago. Over 15-18 grs of 2400, these make good "mid range" target loads good out to 200 yards in 308 or 30-06.

[megasupermagnum]

@M-tecs, no point in reasoning. I've found a few of shooting ranges are run by people that are either incredibly stupid or scared or both. Some ranges I swear they don't want you to shoot at all. If you aren't shooting 5-10 rounds at a paper target, and it had better be slow, then you best move on. I joined a range temporarily once, run by a bunch of thieves, that you couldn't use a semi-auto. I was told it had something to do about double fires and shooting over the berm. It had to be one round loaded at a time. It didn't much matter though since they took your money, then never let you shoot anyway. It baffles me how someone who runs a shooting range can be so clueless on shooting sometimes.

FMJ being more prone to ricochet is just one of those things that kind of sounds good for a second, as long as you don't think about it much. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts a standard soft point would ricochet just as often and just as far if scientifically tested. It shouldn't matter though, as a shooting range that doesn't take that into account shouldn't be operating anyway. If you don't have a lot of room downrange, you had better have massive berms, and then it doesn't matter. Better yet would be if people were smart enough to know they probably shouldn't build housing developments 500 yards downrange of a shooting range that has been there forever.

[jsizemore]

Back in the day, before there was a Wolfdog91, 22 fmj surplus from Wideners was some cheap shootin'. 1.5-2¢/bullet in the Hornet, 223, or 22-250 was cheap shooting from 50-400 yards when you bought 1000 or 5000. I'd lay waste to a herd of groundhogs or mob of crows.

[Land Owner]

I sat in an adjacent tree stand and heard my son's lead tipped 30-30 bullet ricochet after it passed through a feral hog. The bullet killed and exited the hog, impacted the earth, and WITH GREAT AUTHORITY ricocheted into the air at the mirrored angle it had entered the hog. It whistled as it exited!

[M-Tecs]

Back in the day, before there was a Wolfdog91, 22 fmj surplus from Wideners was some cheap shootin'. 1.5-2¢/bullet in the Hornet, 223, or 22-250 was cheap shooting from 50-400 yards when you bought 1000 or 5000. I'd lay waste to a herd of groundhogs or mob of crows.

Even at today inflated prices 22 Cal. 55 grain FMJ's can be had for 10¢ each. FMJ's normally are not as accurate as match bullets but every US made one I've shot is 1 MOA capable for 5 shot groups capable out of a good rifle. I rarely can do that with cast and it's not consistent.

I am surprised by some of the comments and apparently the lack of knowledge on this subject. FMJ's have their place. Most importantly they are a low cost option that gets new shooters involved and allows for cheap practice for all shooters.

In early May of 2020 the store I work part-time at had a sale on 9mm ball for $7.99 a box of 50. They sold 300,000 rounds in a week and a half. If you bought a 1,000 round case the prices was $6.99 per 50. Per volume 80+% of their sales have been 9mm, 45, 223 and 308 FMJ ball ammo. Same when you go to the indoor ranges. Almost all the factory ammo shot at indoor ranges in those calibers are FMJ's.

On a sidenote the Hmong in the area really like 17 HMR's with FMJ's for rabbit and squirrel hunting. Lots of small game and varmints can legally be hunted with FMJ's.

On another sidenote TMJ (total Metal Jacket) is a plated version of the FMJ with no opening for a core insertion. This is lifted from another site "Speer TMJ-Sil----Total Metal Jacket----revolver bullets designed specifically for IHMSA silhouette, Electroplated jacket encloses lead core. Through a difficult development process, Speer refined precise thickness for top accuracy. Speer Gold Dot hollow points start as TMJ bullets."

IMI Di-cut is FMJ's ran thru a hollow point forming die. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2090655809/

[Kraschenbirn]

Back in the day, before there was a Wolfdog91, 22 fmj surplus from Wideners was some cheap shootin'. 1.5-2¢/bullet in the Hornet, 223, or 22-250 was cheap shooting from 50-400 yards when you bought 1000 or 5000. I'd lay waste to a herd of groundhogs or mob of crows.

I can recall buying those post-Viet Nam 55-grain milsurp fmjs, literally, by the pound and taking them home in a paper sack. This was the late 1970s-early 1980s; I had a Remington 722 in .222 and a buddy had a (IIRC) Winchester 670 chambered for .225 Win. Back then, we bought pull-down powder the same way - by the pound in paper bags - from the same long-gone gunshop.

Bill

[Soundguy]

I no longer buy jacketed ammo. I still have a few thousand mixed jacketed types on the shelf that i will originally load up.. but for the most part.. I am loading and making cast lead.. and that's what i shoot and adjust my scopes for.

I have a very few guns that I only load jacketed for.. namely a m1 garand that likes milsurp 150's loaded to m2 ball specs and I have a good supply of those setting on my slowly dwindling jacketed shelf.