MP Full Bore 525 Slug Results

[W.R.Buchanan]

I tried these again at 50, then at 100. Drops were as predicted using .070 as a BC and 1300FPS for muzzle velocity.

At 50 yards, I was 2" center to center. However, by 100 I was looking at a 6"-7" group. I was hoping for 4" or 5" but no such luck. That said, where I hunt, 50 yards is a longer than usual shot, and I typically get shots within 25 or 30. So, I'm on-the-fence about fielding these this year. They are "probably ok", but I'd hate to have a super-rare 80 yard shot and not feel comfortable taking it for fear of a poor shot.

So a 4" group at 80 yards with a 3/4" slug is not "Accurate" enough for shooting a deer?

How small are the deer?

Randy

[ChuckJaxFL]

So a 4" group at 80 yards with a 3/4" slug is not "Accurate" enough for shooting a deer?

How small are the deer?

Randy

4” group from a bench, with a rest. Now, I know some of you are virtually living breathing ransom rests. Your offhand, in the woods, groups and your concrete bench groups are basically the same. I’m not that studly. I can probably add about another 4” of wobble to that group if I’m standing unsupported. Combined, that’s enough to turn a good shot into a gut shot.

So, yeah, not accurate enough for my comfort.


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[W.R.Buchanan]

Point is 4" at 80 yards is more than "Usable Accuracy" for a shotgun slug. What ever you add to it is not on the basic accuracy, it's on you. And even if you can shoot a 1" group off the bench doesn't mean that won't grow to 8" at the target once you add in your offhand influence on the gun. You can either shoot it, or not. It takes a lot of practice to become a competent Offhand Shooter with anything.

There is a rule out there (Paco Kelly) that states before you go out to shoot an animal, you need to have shot 100 rounds in practice for every 100 yards of distance you desire to shoot at. So if you are shooting at 200 yards that means 200 shots at 200 yards. and so on. This pretty much shoots down long range shots on game by people who think they can shoot but aren't willing to actually practice enough to get good. There are ethics involved in hunting Game Animals and many never get that.

Maybe loading up a few boxes of shells and go out and shoot at a Paper Deer sized target or Pie Plates at different ranges? And see what you can do?
Then limit yourself to the ranges you can perform best at?

At least then you will know if it is the load or the gun or YOU?

Here's a group I shot with Federal Low Recoil Slugs at Front Sight, Offhand at 50 yards out of my smoothbore M500 with rifle sights. It's about 3" I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer at 50-75 yards with that gun/load offhand. I would also shoot one at 100 yards off a Improvised Rest, but not offhand. I wouldn't shoot anything at or beyond 100 yards with any of my guns many of which will shoot under 1" unless I had my "Trigger Sticks" or some kind of Improvised Rest so I could insure bullet placement.

None of this has anything to do with my guns or ammo. It all has to do with ME! Which is kind of what you were saying, but what I am saying is that if you took what you've got, and went out and Practiced with it you might change your mind about how "Studly" you can become?

Randy

[ChuckJaxFL]

Which is kind of what you were saying, but what I am saying is that if you took what you've got, and went out and Practiced with it you might change your mind about how "Studly" you can become?

Randy

Sure, I appreciate the words of encouragement. And, during times of less economic comfort in my life, I might "push limits" in hopes of filling the freezer. At this point, I can still say I'm content with every round I've ever fired at a deer, and none have been taken with a less-than-quick end.

At this point in my life, though, my freezer won't sit empty just because I don't take a deer, so I am super conservative about the shots I'll take. If I come home empty handed because of it, I won't lose a second of sleep over it.

All that said, I'm finally in a position to give my own rounds "the nod" over anything else. This is the last target of the day and, admittedly, is the best. But, it is actually representative of the groups preceding it. 100 yards, point of aim was center of target.



4” drop is exactly as expected



I made three changes from the previous range trip (one of which was unintentional).

First, I accidentally forgot to fill the skirts with buffer. These were empty-tailed slugs.

Second, I bumped up the charge from 37 to 38, hoping to flatten the curve a little. It was raining, so no optical chrony today. These go transonic around 30 yards, so I couldn't use the shotmarker to measure at 100.

Third (I believe this made a huge difference, and I feel like I "should" have been doing this all along.) - I measured the diameter of all the slugs right next to the seams, and then perpendicular to the seam. I then selected for the roundest bases and loaded those.

I'm using an MP mold for these. I have been tending to run the mold as fast and as hot as I can to make sure I get good fill-out. I think, by rushing, and pressing the pins before the lead is really set enough to maintain shape, I am pushing/pulling the skirts a few thousandths out of round. Sometimes, I'm pushing them 8-9 thousandths.

Oh, and I guess one more change.. I am using Smoke's clear power coat instead of Harbor Freight red.

So... four changes. I don't know which one is responsible for the improvement, but I'll take it and be happy.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I'd go back and shoot that same load at 75 yards and go for dead on at 75. You will be 3" low at 100 which is usable. I'd run with that as it looks like you've got a usable load. Now go shoot something with it.

Randy

[ChuckJaxFL]

I'd go back and shoot that same load at 75 yards and go for dead on at 75. You will be 3" low at 100 which is usable. I'd run with that as it looks like you've got a usable load. Now go shoot something with it.

Randy

You and I are synced up. I’m thinking the exact same thing.

My range only has target holders to allows shots at 25, 50 & 100, but 1” high at 50 describes virtually the same arc that you describe.




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[Agent1187]

Now that's some exciting news Chuck!

I too managed to try something a little new as well, though my results were far more mixed.

First, I slapped on a 3x receiver mount scope onto the ol' 870.

Second, I wondered if my Nitro Cards were not releasing consistently, with the fact that I could only find maybe one out of 15 on the range. So I tried placing the Nitro card on the fiber wad, then my 1/8" felt, then my hot glue filled slug.

50 yard results (the muddy target) were abysmal. Just for shifts and giggles, I fired the remaining 5 rounds at 100 yards. Two completely missed the 24x36" cardboard, and three grouped ~3" together. Recovered slugs show that the felt was occasionally sticking along through the target.

So, more things to ponder and test. But likely in the depths of winter after deer season is over.

[longbow]

I have been using cast on attached tailwads of hot melt glue for modified Lee slugs in plastic wads. To make sure they don't stick to the shotcups I tumble in talcum powder in a plastic bag. I am sure graphite or mica powder would work as well but talcum powder is cheap and works.

If you tumble your glue filled slugs in talcum powder that should keep wads from sticking to the glue.

Silicone spray might work too. I haven't tried that.

Alternately you might try filling the cavity with paraffin wax instead of glue. I have read about this and no reason it shouldn't work as far as I can see, and supposedly the wax does not stay with the slug after exiting the barrel. That makes sense since the Lyman HB is very conical so nothing to keep the wax inside. I would have thought that even the hot melt glue would tend to part company with the slug because I found that tailwads of hot melt glue cast onto Lee slugs tended not to bond well unless the slug was hot when the glue was poured into the form. I had cast on tailwads pull out easily yet they were fully filled out. Now I use a screw or I rivet the drive key to create a burr to hold the glue tailwad. The Lyman slug is smooth and has a conical cavity so I'd be surprised if the glue fill didn't separate at least sometimes.

Something else to think about and experiment with!

Longbow

[ChuckJaxFL]

As predicted (by Randy I should say, I had concerns), it makes meat.


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[W.R.Buchanan]

Good Job Chuck. I knew you had it in you! Looks like you drilled that one right directly in the middle of the shoulder? IE POA=POI

Randy

[ChuckJaxFL]

Good Job Chuck. I knew you had it in you! Looks like you drilled that one right directly in the middle of the shoulder? IE POA=POI

Randy

I tucked it in just behind the shoulder blade itself, so no bone chucks. But I did clip the shoulder meat some unfortunately. It’s further back than the picture makes it seem.

It was an awkward shot, I was on a platform stand, leaning around the right side of the tree. He was walking right-to-left, and I was running out of ‘space’ to twist. My accuracy concerns will have to wait for another year, this was just a 35 yard shot.

I didn’t get good pictures of the internal tissue damage. It’s a pretty clean circle all the way through. I don’t think there was any expansion (not that it needs any), nor do I think anything fragmented off. No big circle of bruise around the wound, like some sabot slugs I’ve used. Just a clean punch straight through, like the old-school Remington sluggers.

[W.R.Buchanan]

That slug is essentially a Wadcutter. IF you look at H&N Pellets you will see miniature 525 Slugs. They leave perfectly round holds in paper targets with no hanging chads. So do the Lyman 525 slugs. Apparently they leave round holes in Meat too?

Randy

[Agent1187]

Well, I finally got a few things cleared from my to-do list and was able to get back to fiddling with these slugs.

I left off trying to ensure I was getting a clean release of the glue filled slug from the wad column.

My first try was to place a disc of housewrap (the tarp-like stuff, not real tyvek) between the slug and the Nitro card. The result was that the Nitro card compressing the glue would cut the housewrap. I recovered two Nitro Cards, but they appear to have the potential to stick in there yet.

The second try was to shoot a big puff of graphite over the Nitro card before setting the slug. No Nitro Cards recovered, but I did find a nearly undamaged slug. Snow is weird like that.

The last try was to place a disc of housewrap over a felt over the Nitro card. All felts and two housewrap discs were recovered indicating good release.

And a bonus feature - I trimmed a used hull to 2.25" and roll crimped a 1 oz lee slug in a WAA12R wad over 33 gr of Longshot. I'm still amazed how fragile these heavy field wads are in the gas seal area. Otherwise, this seems like a load with potential.

[centershot]

Agent1184-I found much the same thing regarding the AA12-R wads, they didn't hold up well at all. If you have some Federal 12S3's give them a try, they proved to be a much more stoutly built wad in my trials.

Attachment 311051

[megasupermagnum]

Just so you are aware, those nitro cards don't just fall off at the muzzle. They will stay with the slug in the low air pressure zone for a while. I can confirm that with a stack of them at least 3 deep will travel 35 yards with the slug, and even make it all the way through a black bear. That's not sticking, that is air pressure alone.

[Agent1187]

The Nitro Cards are the real oddity in behavior.

The gas seals, fiber wads, and felt wads are usually findable down range.

The Nitro Cards I've seen everywhere from 15 yds, to bouncing off the 50yd target, to still stuck on the slug in the berm. And I can only find maybe one out of 10.

I figured they'd hang with the slug from air pressure like you said, but I suspect the huge inconsistencies in the release was giving me some extra issues.

Next up is to load a few extra of each and work on accurizing/shimming the 870.

[megasupermagnum]

It very well could be. If you read my thread you will find that a nitro card under the slug, but inside the wad caused tumbling slugs. Remove the nitro card and they shot perfectly.

Then again, the same slug used as a full bore 16 gauge slug with a stack of cards underneath never had that issue, and that is a smooth bore.

I have a hunch it is the sabot separating and that suction from the nitro card is what destabilizes them, but I have no way to prove it.