MP Full Bore 525 Slug Results

[Agent1187]

I'm starting this thread in the hopes that others can chime in with their experiences and results with this majestic wad of lead.

So for those who don't know, these puppies drop at a hair over 0.730" (per calipers) and 630 grains +/- with range scrap plus tin which comes to 1.44 ounces. I found that I got best results aggressively pouring a lot of lead, even after it seemed full. Otherwise I observed either a small void at the top of the hollow base, or the top of the pellet would not completely form.

Whether it was necessary or not, I powdercoated my slugs before use.

*WARNING - MY LOAD DATA IS A SCIENTIFIC WILD-AZZED GUESS AND MAY NOT BE SAFE* Feel free to criticize.

I am using once fired new versions of Federal Top Gun hulls and Winchester primers. My wad columns consist of a BPI BPGS gas seal (as the x12x were out of stock), 1 to 1 ½ 10mm waxed fiber cards, 1 0.135 Nitro card, then the slug finished with a fold crimp.

These were fired from a 20" (I think) rifled Remington 870. Chronograph was set up at 15 feet (as my first test at 6-9 feet blew off the sun shades and gave me 1500+fps readings). The following results were on a nice hot 92F windy humid day.

30.0 grains HS-6
993 fps
1122 fps
1002 fps
1104 fps

At 50 yards, load produced a 10" vertical string. No guarantee it wasn't a flinchy me.

23.0 grains Herco
1074 fps
1067 fps
1088 fps
1058 fps
1075 fps

At 50 yards, similar 10" vertical string as HS-6.

30.0 grains Long Shot
1244 fps
1213 fps
1155 fps
1231 fps
1150 fps

One went 6" high, and four others kept to around 2".

I recovered some slugs from the berm. In wet sand, they certainly look vicious.

I also recovered an interesting blown gas seal.

[JAMESGR]

Thanks for your post. I ask about these type slugs in a recent post. Looking forward to more of your test results.
JAMES
JAMESGR

[Agent1187]

Sometimes it's amazing how hard it is to find an extra hour on a nice day.

So for this round, I focused on using 2 Nitro Cards under the slug, thinking that one was not enough to support the slug skirt.

I started with a near duplication of my best load from last week.
30.0 grains Longshot + 1 BPGS + 1 10mm waxed hard card + 2 0.135 Nitro Cards in a Federal Top Gun hull.
1262 fps
1294 fps
1248 fps
1232 fps

This left a large vertical string, and appeared to be too hot of a load from the wear on the fold crimp and bolt face impressions. I also recovered my first Nitro Card as pictured. Considering all the rest of the hard cards only show some distortion, the fact the Nitro card got shoved into the slug base was impressive and disappointing

Next was trying to improve on the HS-6 load - as many of my 1 Oz Lee slug loads struggled with consistent ignition.
I upped it to 31.0 grains HS-6 + 1 BPGS + 1 10mm waxed hard card + 2 0.135 Nitro Cards in a Fiochhi clear hull.
1165 fps
1171 fps
1161 fps
1134 fps
1172 fps

So I found consistent velocity, but it was again a long string on target, and showed over pressure signs, namely sticky extraction.

Then we got pretty western based on some old load data using 2400. Starting at 42 grains in an estate hull + 1 BPGS + 1 10mm waxed hard card + 2 0.135 Nitro Cards.
1045 fps
1060 fps
1036 fps
And 2 errors due to sun, which I attempted to correct with help of the nearby recycling dumpster. These loads barked and spit flame, but didn't group well.

I then moved up to 44 grains of 2400 in a federal top gun hull + 1 BPGS + 1 10mm waxed hard card + 2 0.135 Nitro Cards.
1023 fps
1056 fps
993 fps
1106 fps
And a nice group of three plus two fliers. Velocity results are questionable, as I think the sun may have been shining in the sensors again.

Last but not least was some real experimentation. Using the same wad columns, I tried 35 grains of Enforcer and 33 grains of TCM. The Enforcer gave me a blooper, but the TCM launched at 915 fps. As I learned that 800x was recently discontinued, the tested heavyweight shotgun powder list is growing slimmer by the day.

[longbow]

I have not loaded that slug but have loaded HB slugs of up to 800+ grs. in the past.

I always fill the HB now since finding wads that had obviously been blown into the hollow base and I have recovered slugs with wads still jammed in the hollow base. Now all my HB slugs cavities are filled with hot melt glue.

It is amazing what a kick in the but with 10,000 PSI will cause to deform/extrude. I have had plastic wads jam in the cavity and even when they don't they often deform and fail as do hard card wads and even nitro card wads. The glue fill keeps the wads out of the cavity and behind the slug where they belong.

Some people don't seem to have a problem with unfilled slugs but I certainly did!

Have you tried Blue Dot? I've had good results with BD and heavy slugs.

Longbow

[Agent1187]

I found it quite incredible that the nitro card failed so spectacularly, while all the hard cards just seem to have slight deformation on either side.

In terms of using Blue Dot - When I started this foray, I couldn't find it for any price on Gunbroker or any online retailer. But you must be my good luck charm longbow, as Natchez just received a nice shipment of Alliant powders (including Blue Dot!). So once I receive it, I'll be able to report back with some more shoulder whooping results.

[megasupermagnum]

That's pretty typical of what I've seen. Fill the base with hot glue and you will be much better off.

[Petander]

I have the shotcup /wad slug version of this MP mold. I also have the original Lyman,not a full bore either.

Is the fullbore version of this pellet slug considered good with a rifled barrel? I have a rifled 870 as well and it shoots coated fullbore round balls good up to 75 meters.

[Agent1187]

Made it out for another quick test day.

As much as I hate adding extra steps - especially ones prone to human error - initial results show that filling the base with hot glue does help greatly with consistency.

With a Federal Top Gun hull + 30.0 grains Longshot + BPGS + 1.5 10mm waxed hard cards + 1 0.125 Nitro Card + Glue filled slug yielded the following velocities at 5 yards:
1224
Error
1239
1227
1220
Accuracy was 3 within 2" at 50 yards plus one flier 2" low and one 2" left. Based on the bloopers I've had with unlisted powders, I'm picking up a bit of a flinch with these punishing rounds.

Next was 38.0 grains of Blue Dot with the same load as above except 1x 10mm hard card instead of 1.5.
1238
1246
1259
1263
1335 -> This was an older Gold Medal hull
Accuracy was again 3 within 2" plus two fliers about 2" away.

I'm curious how hard the Bkue Dot loads can get pushed, but I know the Longshot loads are near the top.

[Agent1187]

Petander - my hopes are to find out how this slug performs in a smoothbore application soon. But so far, it appears to be quite formidable with a rifled barrel.

My biggest drive for moving to the fullbore was the trouble in finding suitable wads for the Lee slug that weren't prone to narrow fitment tolerances for each specific barrel/firearm. And similarly for the Lyman 525 - almost every tested wad in the US is out of production, and the off-brand replacements have different construction which (negatively) affects their use in slug applications.

In hopes of reviving my pile of already cast Lee slugs, I picked up a bag of Claybuster Red WAA12 1 3/8oz wads to approach the powder charge listed with the Lee load data. For my efforts, I got wads that disintegrated with the impressive failures of the gas seal area in addition to some petal failure.

[longbow]

Even with the glue fill that skirt is shortening and expanding quite a bit based on the rifling engraving at the bottom of the skirt. Good results though.

You might try oven heat treating to see if hardening the slug helps or hurts. I'd think with the full bore slug it wouldn't hurt snd might help.

If those Claybuster WAA 12 Red wads are the same as or similar to the Winchester AA Red wads my experience is that they tend to fail at both gas seal and petals. The Winchester version I have seems to be softer than most other wads and gas seal failure was the major problem I had with them. I gave up and went with Winchester 1 1/8 oz. yellow wads. They hold up much better... for me anyway.

I was thinking about that Mihec full bore slug for smoothbore but at 630 grs. it is heavier than I want. I like to keep slug weights from 7/8 to 1 1/4 oz. since there is lots of load data available.

I will be watching for your smoothbore range report though!

As a note, Precision Rilfe published a load for their 610 gr. full bore PileDriver SWC slug in straight walled hulls using up to 44 grs. of Blue Dot which in my opinion is too heavy a charge (pressure tested at 12,500 PSI). I can sent you a PDF of load data if you want, just PM me your e-mail. If you can stand the recoil you can likely go to at least 40 grs. of BD in a straight walled hull. I found that 38 grs. of BD under a 0.735" RB (about 580 grs.) was as much recoil as I wanted in my single shot test gun.

I am tending to load slugs a little lighter these days... accumulated recoil induced brain damage is taking a toll!

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

That amount of skirt expansion looks great, that is what you should be seeing for good accuracy. I do not believe alloy is going to be a big factor in these slugs. I would not worry too much about your chrono readings. You are certainly getting misreads. Your bluedot load did not have one shot 100+ fps over the rest, that is a misread. It appears to me your Longshot and Bluedot loads are plenty consistent. Based on my own experience, you are right up around a good maximum for Bluedot. You might even be a little strong for Longshot, trying 26-28 grains might be worthwhile. I can't help with 2400.

Some things I've found that may help accuracy. Instead of waxed fiber wads, give cork wads a try. They are a little more expensive, but worth it to me for slugs. You are consistently getting stringing or fliers, and I would look more at the slug gun, than the load in this case. I have a bit of experience in accurizing an 870 for slugs, and it depends on how serious you want to make this gun. For sure, give shimming the barrel a try. All you need is a pop can or similar thin shim metal. Then you cut small strips to take up the space between the frame, and the barrel extension. It might not sound like much, but this makes a significant difference. Another quick tip is when you shoot, you do not want your pump free flying. I think it was Randy that recommended pinching the action bars to keep the slide from moving. While this definitely locks your slide, it is kind of an unnatural technique. Instead, I find the best thing is to use my usual push-pull technique with a firm grip. Shooting rifle-style is a sure way to get the fliers you are seeing.

[Agent1187]

Managed to sneak out for another short range session.

Being the masochist I am, I bumped today's loads up to 40 grains of Blue Dot. But I did not bring the Chrono.

Groups were 4 each, with a different round used as a sighter.

Rifled barrel groups remained fairly consistent with the previous loading of 38 grains. And I brought a smooth-bore barrel as well. Groups from that were similar, with one flyer.

Apparently these slugs fare alright with or without rifling.

I did recover one slug with powder burns on it, though the recovered gas seals did not appear to fail.

I've got a roll crimper on the way to do some more foolish things like trying to put 3" loads into 2 3/4" hulls.

Sent from my SM-S115DL using Tapatalk

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have a hot tip for you. It seems all your loads for these slugs appear to be capable of exiting the atmosphere and achieving orbit.

I have gotten excellent accuracy with loads that are in the 1150 to 1300 fps range. Try 23 gr of Unique for @1250 fps Fold Crimp AA or STS hulls.

The problem with using a Roll Crimper on these two slugs is that they don't have a Flat Surface to land the rolled part on like the ones in the pic below.. Both the Lee and Lyman slugs just wedge the Rolled Section into the inside of the hull as they travel towards the forcing cone. Slugs with a Flat Place on the face will shove the crimp forward as well, but won't wedge it against the inside of the hull. It is obvious that a Fold crimp just gets pushed open as it allows the slug to exit.

I load a lot of 12 ga. Practice Ammo for use in places where I can't or don't want to pick up the spent hulls. They are mostly my old style AA hulls that have been loaded 8-10 times are are due for retirement, as well as Win Universals and others like Federals I might have picked up along the way, They all get reloaded the same way on my Single Stage DL266 for the one way trip to Valhalla. Sometimes the crimp doesn't get pushed in far enough or bulges out a little. I take these over to my Mill and run the Roll Crimp tool into them. This finishes the Shell and also makes a nice rolled edge on the front end that helps with feeding.

I loaded up 60 Lee Slugs so everyone would have Slugs to shoot in the Shotgun Stage at my last 3 gun shoot a couple weeks ago. They were all loaded in once fired New AA Handicap Hulls (Gray Ones). They got 18 gr of Green Dot a Clay Buster Blue Slug Wad, a 1/8" card under the slug and a thin over shot card so the crimp would lay flat. Then finished on the Roll Crimper. They looked perfect and everyone was happy.

The stage started with 4 slug shots on 2 steel targets, one at 35 yards adn one at 50 yards. I missed the 2 shots on the 35 yard target which made me suspect that the rear sight on the A5 had drifted to the right a little bit. but then I hit the 50 yard target boom boom. so maybe not?

Life goes on.

Randy.

[Petander]

Yes,a roll crimper really finishes a fold crimped round.

Randy,what Brenneke is that slug exactly?

[Agent1187]

With these slugs coming in at a chunky 630 grains, it takes a vicious push to hit 1250 fps, let alone 1300 fps. I'll be happy if I can safely hit 1300 fps, and tickled black and blue to get 1325 fps.

Roll crimper came in yesterday, so I had to play a little.

Trying a new wad column of a Gualandi x12x type gas seal, 1/2" unwaxed fiber card, 1/8" felt card, 1/8" Nitro card, and glue filled slug to top it off. Loading these over 40 grains of Blue Dot for now.

I'll be interested to see what the chronograph has to say. The OAL is ~2.5", so I'm close to comparing these loads to 3" fold crimp data. However with such a thin roll crimp, maybe they won't generate enough pressure? Who knows, but I'm gonna find out soon!

Sent from my SM-S115DL using Tapatalk

[W.R.Buchanan]

That Red Slug came from BPI and it was made in Turkey. Go here,,, https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Pa...tinfo/0141211/

Here it is next to a Brenneke Factory loaded round. Brenneke loads it's slugs into Rio Hulls so they are pretty easy to duplicate.

Agent : You could get rid of some of the wadding in your stack ( the 1/8" felt) and I'd put the 1/8" Card on top of the Lyman slug so that there was a nice flat surface for the Roll crimp to seat on. You want to end up with about 3/8"-1/2" of hull above the top of your stack so there is enough room to get the rolled portion to fold over nicely and contact the flat surface on top of the Slug or stack.

see pics below. Those all had about 1/2"+ of free hull before crimp. Good thing about clear hulls is you can see exactly what is happening with your crimp as you do it.

Randy

[longbow]

Agent:

I'd think 1325 FPS is doable. Precision rifle posted results for their 12 ga. 610 gr. PileDriver solid slug shopwing 1336 FPS at 40 grs. BD, 1382 FPS at 42 grs. BD and 1472 FPS at 44 grs. BD.

The PileDriver is 610 grs. so a little lighter but only about 4%. I will say that the 44 gr. charge of BD resulted in 12,359 PSI which seems a little high to me but I settled on 38 gr. max, under a 0.735" RB so lighter projectile with less bearing surface and moderate powder charge. That was as much recoil as I wanted! More actually.

You might do a search for Bllod Trail's posts on Russian slugs as several of those are over 600 grs. IIRC and turbo1889. Seems tio me turbo posted some info for heavy slug loads but I don't remember what sort of velocities he was acheiving. Then of course there is Ed Huble's load data.

Anyway, I'm betting with a slow powder you can achieve your desired velocities but I am sure recoil will be substantial! At 40 grs. BD you may be there already or very close.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

Agent:

Anyway, I'm betting with a slow powder you can achieve your desired velocities but I am sure recoil will be substantial! At 40 grs. BD you may be there already or very close.

Longbow

Keep in mind your Shotgun probably doesn't weigh as much as a Double Rifle, and the recoil will limit you shooting sessions. In my case they'd be 1-2 shots!

Randy

[longbow]

You've got that right Randy! Even shooting the 0.735" RB's over 38 grs. of Blue Dot is quite painful with the light single shot. After 35 rounds I was pretty punchy!

Last outing with the Brenneke'ized Lee slugs I had downloaded some and went through 45 rounds. Even then that takes a toll.

Launching heavy lead of 600 grs. or more at 1400 FPS just plain hurts!

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

The roll crimp looks fine, pressures wont be effected. I'm sure you can get to 1300 fps safely with bluedot, although I'm not sure you will want to again. Personally I'd worry about getting those more accurate before I'd worry about speed. You are already plenty fast for flat shooting to 100 yards, but your accuracy isn't there. I think your current loads are performing really good, but your slug gun needs a few tweaks.