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Thread: Anyone anneal handgun brass?

  1. #21
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    lar45's Avatar
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    I used the same batch of Win 45 colt brass for about 15 years with heavy loads in a Ruger Blackhawk. It had oversized chambers and the base of the cases expanded and took a set so they wouldn't fit in my 45colt Seville.
    I know you are not supposed to, but I annealed the cases down close to the head to size them down. I ran them through a 44amp die to reduce the bases, then expanded the mouths and fire formed. They worked fine for awhile, but they made me nervous so I scrapped that batch and switched to starline.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    I anneal 44-40 brass with a torch. The case mouths are very thin and I get more life out of them. Some of mine have likely been through 10-12 loads but I don’t keep precise records.

  3. #23
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    Never bothered with common revolver brass. Given the difficulty in finding replacement brass these days, though, it's something that I'm considering going forward...

    I do try to expand the necks as little as possible, though. Excessive flaring will dramatically shorten the life of the case.

    For a while, I was using one of those spacer bushings under my 38 Spl dies to load 357. Idea seemed good...Set the dies once for 38, then just install them with the spacer for 357 with no additional adjustments. Except one day, I forgot the washer and flared a bunch of 357's with the die set to 38 length. I noticed that they seemed more resistant to flaring than usual, but I brushed it off and just kept going until I had processed the whole lot. It wasn't until went to seat the bullets that I had realized what I had done. Too late. Most of them split on that next firing.

    I don't use those spacers anymore...

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy 468's Avatar
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    If you by chance pick up some .357 brass, I’ll but it from you. Very little down here. In fact, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else shooting a wheel gun at the range I frequent.
    Mould forth, and load in peace.

  5. #25
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    Nickel has a reputation for splitting sooner than yellow brass.
    I sort my nickel brass ouT. No, I do not anneal handgun brass.

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  6. #26
    Boolit Master Sasquatch-1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiloh View Post
    Nickel has a reputation for splitting sooner than yellow brass.
    I sort my nickel brass ouT. No, I do not anneal handgun brass.

    Shiloh
    I would like to know how nickel plating causes the case to split sooner. I have some nickel plated cases that I have reloaded some many times that they have become hard to distinguish from yellow brass.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 468 View Post
    My .357 are starting to split. I don’t load them hot. Wondering if anyone tried annealing to extend their reloading life.
    For what it's worth, here are a couple of thoughts which came to mind: 1st is that annealing can't hurt, BUT MAKE SURE you do not get the case bottom too hot! There are more than enough treatises on annealing on Internet I shan't go into detail. Other than if you anneal the case's bottom you are making a quite potentially dangerous object, as the now annealed case bottom may very well be too soft to contain high pressure from ignition. (This may be one of the cases -- albeit I've not done it -- where standing cases in a pan of cool water, to exclusively heat/anneal their tops -- may be the way to go.)
    2ndly, brass (like us ) doesn't last forever... I've noted through the years, "the older the brass, the more likely to have neck splits" -- this primarily with handgun calibres -- notably in my experience .38 S&W Special. I once got a bucket of once-fired .38 S&W Special brass that had been sitting 25+ years -- assorted headstamps and a mix including some nickel -- and a very high percentage developed neck splits by 2nd (quite mild for S&W Model 52 mid-range use) loading.
    Hope this helps...
    geo

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 468 View Post
    My .357 are starting to split. I don’t load them hot. Wondering if anyone tried annealing to extend their reloading life.
    Maybe it is due to my old eyes, but it sure looks as though most of those did not split at the case neck where you'd figure they'd split, but down about midway of the case. Just shooting from the hip, but I'd wonder if it was just plain bad brass. I had some Winchester factory new 303 Brit ammo a few years ago and I had one or two case splits about midway in the case.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #29
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    Some brass is not good. The only handgun brass I ever reloaded that demonstrated that problem was some Star line 9mm Largo that was not properly annealed from the factory. It split exactly as your 357 brass has, but on the first or second firing.
    The only revolver cases I ever annealed were 327 mag Federal cases that were splitting on first firing, and at the time, they were unique, only Federal loaded ammunition was to be had. I had to break down two boxes of shells, de-prime, then anneal the cases. Once this was done, I reloaded them and got several loadings out of them before I tired of the experiment and sold my Taurus.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch-1 View Post
    I would like to know how nickel plating causes the case to split sooner. I have some nickel plated cases that I have reloaded some many times that they have become hard to distinguish from yellow brass.
    I remember reading that it has something to do with the plating process, that tends to make the brass sightly more brittle than unplated brass. I've found that a lot of people won't buy nickel plated brass for that reason, but I think it's an overblown worry. I have noticed that whenever I find a split case it does seem a bit more likely that it's nickel, but not nearly enough to make me avoid nickel altogether. Besides, I like shiny.

    A little bit of a tangent regarding annealing: I've been annealing all of my bottleneck brass since I started wet tumbling a few years ago. I didn't at first, but I started having a high percentage of split necks on ammo that had been sitting for a while. It was happening on multiple different calibers and types, and the only thing they had in common was the fact that the brass had all been wet tumbled before loading. I believe something about the tumbling slightly embrittled the case necks, and as they aged sitting on a shelf, they got worse. I had about 1500 rounds of 223 that was scrap- about half of them had tiny, invisible cracks to where I could pull the bullets with my fingers, and 90% of the rest were guaranteed to crack if I fired them. I ended up pulling down a lot of ammo. I started annealing every high pressure round that I tumble, and the problem went away completely.

    I wondered if I should start annealing higher pressure revolver rounds like 357 and 44 mag, but never had any issues with them cracking. I have changed the way I tumble somewhat, so that may have been a factor. I don't leave them in as long, and use less Dawn and Lemishine. I haven't heard of this being a common issue, and the usual reaction when I mention it is that it's impossible, I must be doing something wrong, excessive sizing, storing them next to ammonia, etc.. I hope there aren't a lot of guys out there who pull their carefully assembled reloads off the shelf a couple years later to use them, only to find them all cracked.

  11. #31
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    I wonder if the cracking of nickel plated cases is the result of hydrogen embrittlement? See attached.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rintinglen View Post
    Some brass is not good. The only handgun brass I ever reloaded that demonstrated that problem was some Star line 9mm Largo that was not properly annealed from the factory. It split exactly as your 357 brass has, but on the first or second firing.
    You may have saved me the exercise of taking my destroyer down to it's bare bones.
    I can fire original berdan primed ammunition with no problem(splitting that is).
    My star line Largo brass splits on first firing.
    Never have had a problem with new star line brass before, going to have to question that now.
    Have gotten some cerro safe to make chamber cast check size of chamber.
    Never heard about the failure of Starline to anneal some brass.
    It did split very similar to the OP's 357.
    Think I'll try to anneal and see it results are different.
    Thanks for some insight to the problem.
    And how did you find out about the factory snafu?
    thanks

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy 414gates's Avatar
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    Pistol brass is cheap enough that annealing is more effort than it's worth..

    You certainly could anneal pistol brass.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master kywoodwrkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 414gates View Post
    Pistol brass is cheap enough that annealing is more effort than it's worth..
    In normal days, probably a correct statement.
    You have to remember we now have Brandon mucking things up royally.
    A fixed income tells me right now it's cheaper to heat up the lead pot and anneal.
    I may have junked the Largo brass already anyway.
    Do have Win 9x23 that I may try in the destroyer.
    thanks

  15. #35
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    Years ago I did a shoot to destruction test using Winchester 45 Colt brass in my Black Hawk. I started with 50 pieces of new brass, fired them twice with Ruger level loads and then used mild loads with Unique and Lee’s 255 RNFP. At the 25 loading/firing mark; coincidentally, I had 25 cases left. The 25 lost were due to split necks. Based on my experience, I don’t anneal pistol brass

  16. #36
    Boolit Master Castaway's Avatar
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    I trashed the remaining 25 cases

  17. #37
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    Before I fixed my financial woes by marrying a lady who pulls her own weight, I couldn’t afford a high failure rate regarding brass. I had a friend turn the ends of some brass rods for a slip fit into the mouths of a few revolver cartridges I loaded for. I’d clamp a rod into a bench vise and position a propane torch under it. When the rod was good and hot I would pick up a case while wearing a leather work glove and slip it over the machined end of the rod. You can easily see the heat migrate through the brass and then you just drop the case into an ammo can underneath the rod. I wouldn’t be above doing it these days if I see the need.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJames View Post
    Maybe it is due to my old eyes, but it sure looks as though most of those did not split at the case neck where you'd figure they'd split, but down about midway of the case. Just shooting from the hip, but I'd wonder if it was just plain bad brass. I had some Winchester factory new 303 Brit ammo a few years ago and I had one or two case splits about midway in the case.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I’ve had Jameson .357 Maximum brass that split approx 20% on the first firing with low to mid level loads using Alliant 300-MP. Jameson didn’t even reply to my emails asking if that was being reported by others using their same subpar brass.
    8500' Wet Mountain Valley, Colorado

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy Walstr's Avatar
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    WOW NSB; thanks for the behind the scenes education. I wouldn't have known that might have been a factor.
    Been loading 6.5 CM for ELD, learning to load Mosin Nagant & .308/7.62x51
    Caster & CWW / Lead miner.
    Mountain Mold 45-70-405, 80% Meplat, sized .461" dia. for Marlin 1895GS
    Lyman mold #429421 "Elmer Keith" style 255gr, Dbl Cavity; [for .44 Mag, S&W 629, Alox lubed]
    Lyman #356402, 9mm, Sngl Cavity [for a friend]
    LEE #90282, 12ga Drive Key, 7/8oz Slug [for: Son's 3-Gun]
    LEE #90349, 452-255RF, 6 Cavity [for 45 Colt & 45 ACP; Alox lubed]
    LEE #90697, 453-200RF, ditto

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy Walstr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 468 View Post
    My .357 are starting to split. I don’t load them hot. Wondering if anyone tried annealing to extend their reloading life.
    You bet I do. Click image for larger version. 

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    This improved "sealing" was especially helpful with my 215gr low power CAS loads. Until I win a lottery, I always seem to have "more time than money".

    ANNEALING 101: Annealing, esp brass/copper, is affected by following a well documented [don't have it now] 2nd order curve, where a 'lower temperature @ longer time' is equivalent to 'high temperature @ very short time' to reorganize crystalline structure. I dry my cleaned brass @ 280 deg. for 30 min. prior to tumble 'polishing'; not a problem, no danger to its strength.

    I anneal short brass as pictured, for just enough time to discern a red hue in my darkened room, then dump it, as an automotive socket easily permits. Dump it where? Well in bucket of water with 45Auto or 45 LC, to prevent any heat traveling to toward the base. 45-70, 30-06 necks are just dumped in a nearby tray. NOTE - Cooling [called quenching] in water or air does not adversely affect the annealing results, it just permits you various control of the heat traveling to where it's not desired.

    Hope this helps. Wally
    Been loading 6.5 CM for ELD, learning to load Mosin Nagant & .308/7.62x51
    Caster & CWW / Lead miner.
    Mountain Mold 45-70-405, 80% Meplat, sized .461" dia. for Marlin 1895GS
    Lyman mold #429421 "Elmer Keith" style 255gr, Dbl Cavity; [for .44 Mag, S&W 629, Alox lubed]
    Lyman #356402, 9mm, Sngl Cavity [for a friend]
    LEE #90282, 12ga Drive Key, 7/8oz Slug [for: Son's 3-Gun]
    LEE #90349, 452-255RF, 6 Cavity [for 45 Colt & 45 ACP; Alox lubed]
    LEE #90697, 453-200RF, ditto

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