Wanting a very good lathe to do some work on my guns. I have no idea what is good today. I have been out of the work force for 25 years and know there has been a lot of improvements in them. I would like one that I could do a barrel on, so has to hold tollance good.
Last edited by warren5421; 06-09-2022 at 10:02 PM.
What type of work are you looking to do?
Doing small screws verse chambering and contouring 50 BMG barrels requires much different lathes. Good used US lathes (that are not totally wore out) are rare and priced accordingly. Korean and Taiwan imports generally are much better quality than Chinese lathes.
I have been looking for years and I have yet to find anything I consider "good" for under $6,000.00. Also the current global supply chain shortages has increased prices 50% to 100% pre-pandemic. Some are happy with light duty Chinese lathes, however. I am not one of them. Even these sell for over used $3,000.00 in my area.
I just purchased a nice used Hardinge HLV-H from the east coast. Shipping was $894.00 and the quotes was only good for five days. Fuel prices went 20% since I shipped. That would have increased prices by $100.00 or $200.00 if I shipped today. Two years ago I shipped a similar item from the same location. It was under $320.00.
I am not sure of what vast improvement have occurred in the last 25 years are? For CNC machines yes. For manual machines not so much.
My Hardinge HLV-H is normally considered too small for contouring barrels. It's great for threading and chambering but max size is 1.250" for barrel blanks. I recently bid on three local lathes for contouring. Two were Chinese below average quality and shape. One was older US but well worn. $3,600.00 was the cheapest sale price.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 06-10-2022 at 02:09 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
There has been no improvement in manual toolroom style lathes since the 1960s.......the reason being cost.......top machines would be Monarch,Hendey,Sidney ,Weiler,Mazak etc.or maybe a later South Bend of medium size.
not sure what budget your working with. if money no object that's one thing but if on a budget here might be something for you. I think these are the same lathes that are branded JET for about $15000 each
https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?f...30&acctid=1083
They will not palletize this for you. They do have forklifts available. Hiring someone to pick it up, palletize and ship this will be $1,500 to $2,000.00 total. With Gov. auctions unless it states it's 100% functional purchase at your own risk. This listing is for two lathes so shipping will be more and it sounds like they are parts lathes not fully functional. You also have to pay for a 12.5% buyers premium.Originally Posted by farmbif
On a side note that is the same lathe that I bid $1,200 locally. It was under power and 100% functional. It sold for $3,625 plus a 13% buyers premium.
All items must be removed within 10 business days from the time and date of issuance of the Buyer’s Certificate. The Buyer will make all arrangements and perform all work necessary, including packing, loading and transportation of the property.
Property may be removed between the hours of 8:00am and 3:00pm eastern time, Monday through Friday, excluding legal holidays, BY APPOINTMENT ONLY.
To schedule pick up, please contact Trent Heston by email at tcheston@ortn.edu or by phone at 865-425-9091.
A daily storage fee of $10.00 may be charged for any item not removed within the 10 business days allowed and stated on the Buyer’s Certificate.
The same basic Precision Matthews lathe currently starts at $4,999.99 plus shipping. https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1236/
Last edited by M-Tecs; 06-09-2022 at 11:47 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
The lathe in the govdeals link is a Chinese make school type lathe.....new price when bought would have been around $1000.........havent looked lately ,but current new price would be around $4000-$5000.
I have a very nice gunsmith lathe that's also vintage. Got it from a retired gunsmith sale and I've never got around to using it myself. Not an item I would consider shipping so I haven't advertised it for sale. She's a Sheldon Lathe. If someone was close and wanted/needed a Lathe for smith work, this one is ideal.
Attachment 301128
Watch the used tool vendors in your area. Lost creek machine may be one as also Yoders machine in Holland ohio. My biger lathe is a Nardini 14 /18 X 40 it has a 2 1/2" spindle bore. Another is T&S tool supply in Holland Ohio
several things to watch for are single or 3 phase power. Spindle bore, moarse tapers in head stock and tail stock, tooling it comes with, floor space required. Bid Spotter on internet is another place to look.
Monarch Clausing Sheldon, hendi and leblond but they are normally larger machines, Hardringe ae good and normally have a 1 1/2" spindle bores. Also depending on your floors weight may be an issue.
Jet makes a decent machine and grizzly is making the south bend name plate again.
Things to look for in a gunsmithing lathe: 1. The diameter of the hole going through the spindle needs to be large enough to easily pass a barrel blank through it. 2. The distance between centers (between the chuck and the tailstock) needs to be long enough to contour a barrel blank. 3. for cutting screw threads a 'quick change" gear box is more desirable than the old three lever type gear box. 4. If the ways are heavily worn, damaged by dents, or rusty - pass on that one even if it's free (sometimes I can't afford free!) 5. It is desirable to purchase a lathe that still has a source for spare parts. I have a Rockwell lathe. It's a good lathe, but if I ever need a spare part for it I'll probably have to make the part myself. 6. You should be looking for a decent medium sized shop lathe with a 36" to 48" bed. You don't need a huge industrial lathe. 7. The chuck mounting style should be either a "D" type or an "L" type. Some older small lathes have a threaded spindle nose. Mounts like an L00 or a D-3 have a tapered mounting surface which aligns the chucks backing plate to the spindle. Threaded spindles don't have this feature. Larger old industrial lathes that have a threaded spindle and an emergency brake are bad - If you stomp on that brake there's an even chance that the chuck's going to unscrew and come off at you. 8. In addition to a 3 jaw chuck, you'll also want a 4 jaw chuck for precisely centering parts. Finally: 9. After you get your lathe, and as time goes by, you'll probably want to acquire more tooling for it. The first thing you should get is a dial indicator with a magnetic base. Everything else - 5C collets, quick change tool post, steady rest, etc. can come later.
On manual lathes you either have change gears or some type of quick change gear box that will have knobs or levers that are used to change the gear stack to get the proper thread pitch. Change gears are exactly what they sound like. You have to remove and replace various gears to get the desired thread pitch. When you move into CNC and a couple of servo controlled manual machines thread pitch is controlled by servo's without a gear train.
Change Gear Calculations https://www.beyonddiscovery.org/cutt...ious%20threads.
Quick-Change Gear Lathes
The quick-change gearbox permits the operator to obtain the various pitches of threads without using loose gears. All lathes equipped with quick-change gearboxes have index plates or charts for setting up the lathe to cut various threads. It is necessary only to arrange the levers on the gearbox for the various threads per inch, as indicated on the index plate.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 06-10-2022 at 04:36 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I used to buy ,sell and repair lathes......and anything with a good name and old US iron will be 50 plus years old......also pre 1960 will likely have a "soft "bed.....ie not hardened...and excessive wear..........If I lived in a semi remote area ,and needed a lathe,first Id put the word out,not waste too much time ,and then Id buy new a reasonable looking Chinese lathe that suited for around $5000,and see if you cant get free delivery from the dealer......the very few Euro or US makers use a fair proportion of Chinese parts ,anyway,on a $50k lathe.............although ,coupla years ago ,I was looking for a lathe bed to make a rifling machine,guy had a lathe in bits......went around to see it at the sons house......the wife came out ,told us to get the thing out of her carport,or she would ring the scrappies that afternoon.......upshot was I got a lathe in bits free.......not quite free ....I gave the guy some Bridgeport bits in exchange.
There is a group forum called owwm.org old woodworking machines. But they have an overlapping group section for old metalworking machines. ZERO discussion of Chinese or Taiwan machines are allowed. Pricing not allowed for discussion. But they do have a lot of info on pretty much all pre 1990 machines. I've used for several of my old woodworking machines I own, 1930s to 1970s machines. Go peruse, and join up to see classifieds.
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Visit https://www.practicalmachinist.com/ and https://homeshopmachinist.net/
I started with a 1946 Sheldon that came off a US Navy tender, then it moved to Kelly AFB after the Navy parceled it off. My cousin was a gunsmith and bought it from KAFB to use for gunsmithing before selling it to me. He did a lot of barrel work and set up between centers with a steady rest when necessary. It was great for small stuff but the spindle was 1-1/8 ID. I sold it to a guy who was looking for a South Bend and couldn't find one in the area.
I bought an older Jet 12x40 made in the 1980's at an auction - it had been in a tool room and didn't see much use. It will accept 5C collets and has a collet closer, in addition to both 3 and 4 jaw chucks. Finally, I have a 1962 15x48 Clausing Colchester that I saved from the scrap yard; it was being tossed because there were some broken gears in the QC box and gear train. The gears were not available as spare parts but I found a fellow in the Northwest who was set up to make gears and paid him a few hundred bucks to reproduce all of the broken parts. The bed is a little worn but the spindle has almost zero runout so you can recognize .001 feed advance on the cross slides. It has a 2" spindle so easy to set up barrels for threading.
I got all three of my lathes through some type of personal or work connection - for many years, there were very few available machine tools in Central and South Texas that were either not already in use or clapped out trash. I'm starting to see more for sale locally these days because I think the users are dying off - but quite a few are really old belt drive machines which are useless for any type of precision work. I saw a pretty nice 1954 LeBlond the other day for decent money that I would have jumped on except for the two already in the shop.
You also need to look at your electrical service. Very important if you plan to run a 3 phase motor as you will need a converter or VFD.
Most of the guys on y other form are buying Mathews Precision. It is a Taiwanese lathe, but one of the better lathes on the market. Most are of the consensus that the American lathes are so old that they need loving care and they want a machine that hey can use not rebuild. i don't know if this is the right attitude or not but they seem to be the most lathe for the money and better than the standard from the Pacific rim.
My Jet was made in Taiwan and it's quite a good machine. I was told that Jet copied an old Logan design. A friend of mine owned a Logan and it was a typical small machine - equivalent to a South Bend Heavy 10. I would not have a problem buying a Taiwanese or Japanese lathe.
One might also consider a small CNC - it will cost more but much easier to translate CAD models to a program. Everything depends on how deep you want to dive off the board...
I have a 1947 9 X 19 Logan. It is in top notch shape and big enough for all gun work except rifle barrels.
Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.
there is no do all machine, thats why I have 2, you can do a lot with a smaller machine in the 10 x 24 but for barrels you need the bed length and bore thro spindle
The Precision Matthews are both Chinese and Taiwanese made. It depends on model. The ones labeled Precision normally are Chinese. The ones labeled Ultra Precision are Taiwanese and are 2k to 4k more expensive than the Chinese in the same size. The Taiwanese generally have better bearings, smoother operation and better machining and finish. Regardless of who or where it was made weight normally means more rigidity.
https://www.precisionmatthews.com/pr...s/12-14-swing/
https://www.precisionmatthews.com/pr...tegory/lathes/
Last edited by M-Tecs; 06-10-2022 at 08:50 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Char-Gar,
That is a lovely lathe. And you obviously care for it lovingly.
I hate you.
Cogito, ergo armatum sum.
(I think, therefore I'm armed.)
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