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Thread: Older AA #9

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    Older AA #9

    I was given most of the unused powder and primers my Uncle had before he passed away
    Most of it was IMR 4895 and IMR 3031
    Along with some 2400 and Winchester 296
    With a few hundred CCI large rifle primers and large pistol primers

    But there was 2 unopened bottles of AA #9
    BUT I am not sure how old that the powder is
    As the bottles are white
    Both bottles the label is brittle and flaking off
    So when I brought it home
    Just bumping around in a box during the 300 mile trip
    A decent amount of both labels flacked off

    My questions are

    How old would the White bottles of AA #9 be ?

    If the AA #9 seems to be OK , I need to open the bottles and see and smell the powder to check
    Has the load data changed for AA #9 changed over the years ?

    Thanks
    John
    Yea, thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me; Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
    And I carry a LOADED Hell Cat

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    All I can tell you is that Quickload's powder database updated #9 a couple of years ago. May not mean anything at all in your case.
    Cognitive Dissident

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Were they 2 lb containers? I've one 2 pounder I never tapped into, from about 1984 give or take a year.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master 5Shot's Avatar
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    If it smells fine, you are good to go.
    If you live on the razor's edge and slip, you will die in two pieces

  5. #5
    Boolit Master TurnipEaterDown's Avatar
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    I have had some trouble linking particular odor to powder degradation (differing solvents used on different powders, degree of suspected degradation, etc.), so recently I tried something different that I found worked very well for me.

    Take a sheet of white paper (notebook paper), bend the ends up a little. Pour some suspect powder in the middle. Pick up the paper so that the sides also turn upward. Slew the powder around on the paper a number of times (few seconds ought to do it). Bend the paper a little and it will act as a trough to pour powder back in container.
    Look at the paper where the powder had been rolled around on. Tan colored or Brownish spot? Bad powder. Light grey to no spot? Likely Good powder.
    New sheet of paper for each container checked. Do not cross contaminate.

    This worked well for me in identifying some recently purchased powder that went bad (large auction lot cheap), even when I couldn't smell anything bad and small sample of powder "looked OK" (no rusty dust).
    I was disappointed to find several pounds left a tan/brownish spot on the paper in the large auction lot I tested, but better to know than not and I still came out good in my estimation.

    I keep in mind that "good" powder is generally black and shiny, where even the beginning of degradation can cause a powder to simply look "dusty" or dull grey. It can be hard to spot though in my experience, as the appearance of the grain can also vary w/ powder type. The odor test gets me nowhere, as my nose is somewhat bad for some smells. Others great, but it just isn't reliable for me, so I used the paper as an indicator.

    Also, if you have run some suspect powder through your equipment, I would recommend a washing. No reason to contaminate good powder w/ bad (chemical compounds can transfer off a funnel or pan), and I just washed simple equipment w/ hot water and small amount of soap. Rinsed well several times w/ hot water and dried well before using.

    I have been told that degraded powder will create less pressure, but I am not so sure.
    I recently found a powder can in my cabinet that that had started to go bad too, and rustled up some cartridges that I had loaded years ago with that powder. I fired them as the powder in the can had just started to have definitive signs of being degraded, and the cartridges were 12% higher velocity than the last time I checked them when the powder in the can was "good".

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Jim22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 30calflash View Post
    Were they 2 lb containers? I've one 2 pounder I never tapped into, from about 1984 give or take a year.
    I have recently purchased some Accurate #5. I have an older can of it with a paper label that wants to come off. Lately I have been exxperimenting with AA#5 and AA#7 powders. Iput the old can away like i have with my cardboard can of H4198. I have made the decision to retire the older powder in the older containers.

    The exception seems to be a two lb plastic bottle of VV N110. It still works with my original loads.

    This brings up the question to me: Are plastic cans better at keeping powders than the card board or steel cans? I dunno. I think the cardboard cans are prolly the worst. They came from the era when we took a coffee can down to the gun store to buy 4895 or 4831 surplus. But packaging can make a difference. What do you think?

    Jim

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    I opened both this afternoon
    Both had a sort of brown gas that came out of the bottles
    Also there was a strange odor in both bottles

    So I will not be using the powder

    John
    Yea, thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me; Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
    And I carry a LOADED Hell Cat

  8. #8
    Boolit Master 5Shot's Avatar
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    Good call.
    If you live on the razor's edge and slip, you will die in two pieces

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Powder goes bad because the acids that nitrated the cellulose weren't completely washed out or neutralized with some sort of base like calcium carbonate. Acid powder will rust metal cans. Plastic should be immune.

    It's well known that smokeless powder, good, bad or indifferent, makes your garden grow. Especially corn.
    Cognitive Dissident

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Curious where those bottles were made. No. 9 has been produced by several different plants ober the years. I assume they were branded as Accurate Arms (pre Western Powder). Manufactured in Israel?
    "There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something."
    ~Thorin Oakenshield

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I am shooting 44 mag and .357 that I loaded 30 years ago and they shoot great. If the can be good in a brass case for that long, in a sealed container the should still be fine. I they pass the smell test and I am sure they will, just load up and shoot! I've got surplus ammo from WW2 and it shoots like new. Just my 2 cents.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master gc45's Avatar
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    I still shoot powder my Dad bought 40 years ago, just as good as new powder..Have shot 357 mag my Dad loaded back in the 1950's using 2400 and it shot same as my new handloads. I think moisture is the big enemy of powders and if keeping it dry it lasts a long time...Medal cans though could be an issue, like powder cans were long time back...

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check