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Thread: Using GC boolits without gascheck?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    I think you will like the Lee bullet. But, since your velocity will be higher, I would suggest gas checks and/or powder coat.

    If you can find someone capable, the Lee molds can be machined to make them a plain base. But, I would still suggest powder coating for higher velocities.

    Something else to think about. "In the old days" we used polyethylene wads behind magnum bullets without gas checks. They were about 2mm thick and cut to a bit larger than bore, a tight fit in the case. The wad was placed in the mouth of the case and the bullet pushed it the rest of the way. The wads protected the base from powder gases.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

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    Gathering facts:
    Ruger Alaskan with 2.5" barrel
    255gr Boolit
    28 grs Lovex DO37.2 with hard case extraction
    26.5 grs, same powder, no hard case extraction

    Is your caliber 454 Casull???? Please confirm.


    https://explosia.cz/app/uploads/2016...g_Lovex_EN.pdf suggests similar "burn rate" to Accurate #9 but provides NO LOADS for 454 Casull.

    From where did you take your powder charge recommendations?
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  3. #23
    Boolit Mold
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    I confirm.

    Ruger Alaskan
    2,5“ Barrel
    .454 Casull

    Have looked after loading datas in Forums and in the Lee Handbook.

    What’s wrong with my loading?

  4. #24
    Boolit Mold
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    Btw., QuickLoad, which I’m using since about 10 years also told me that I’m ok with the pressure.
    QL shows 3400 bar, that’s fine in .454.
    No pressure signs at all.
    QL shows about a little under 32grs of DO37.2 as a max load, but I don’t want to go Full House with the light 255grs.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    And don't worry about your English. You are doing far better than some who are natives.
    I agree with this. You write English far better than some people who learned it as a child.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
    He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
    ...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40


    Carpe SCOTCH!

  6. #26
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fzr1000 View Post
    What’s wrong with my loading?
    I am no Casull guy and I do not have any specific data, but I do have a Safety concern. The Explosia CZ Mfg's link above shows no loads for 454 Casull, though it does state that it can be used in 454 Casull.

    D037.2
    High density, double base, ball propellant similar to Accurate No. 9 is most suitable for .44 Magnum. This propellant gives excellent velocities for the pressures generated and with less flash than other comparable powders. It is intended for use in large capacity handgun cartridges (.357, .41, .44 Magnum and .454 Casull).
    What the link does show is 45 Colt and 44 Mag, which got me to thinking and trying to compare those to the capability of 454 Casull handguns.

    HANDGUN LOADS

    45 Colt
    250 gr. L (FN) boolit
    DO 37.2 (grains)
    Min........Max
    15.4-----18.5

    44 Mag.
    240 gr. SP [jacketed] bullet
    DO 37.2 (grains)
    Min........Max
    18.5-----20.1

    When I compare those loads to one of several JACKETED BULLET manuals, I see the following:

    Hornady 7th Ed.

    45 Colt
    250 gr. Jacketed HP
    AA No. 9 (grains)
    Min........Max
    7.7-------10.4

    [about twice the load of DO37.2 for cast]

    44 Mag.
    240 gr. Jacketed HP
    AA No. 9 (grains)
    Min........Max
    16.3-----21.3

    [which includes the DO 37.2 jacketed bullet load above]

    454 Casull
    240 gr. Jacketed HP
    AA No. 9 (grains)
    Min........Max
    29.4-----32.6

    People a lot smarter than me developed QuickLoad and you have already experienced "hard to extract" cases at an AA No. 9 load of 28 gr. for a 255 gr. cast boolit, which approaches the range of jacketed bullets per Hornady. I point to the less than convincing published data and ask whether you were above the Max. threshold for AA No. 9 and a 255 gr. cast boolit?

    If wrong, I'll take my "beating" and shut up.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  7. #27
    Boolit Bub
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    I may be pushing a Lee C452-300-RF gas checked and powder coated a bit fast. I use wheel weight quenched from mold and quenched from oven, Add GC when sizing (same day as cast) as they get harder to size if you wait a couple days with .452 Lee push through die with a touch of imperial lube. A little higher BHN on my part may be better. No sticky fired cases. All is well after a few hundred at 1,550fps out of Ruger SRH 454 casull 9.5". Much has been written about (caution) of reduced loads if using H-110 or W 296 powders and primer choice! Trim length is important, as well as proper tight roll crimp, to prevent boolit jump from cartridges remaining in cylinder. If using Hornady XTP's go with the 240gr (Mag) or 300gr (Mag), non Mag's are not recommended, thinner jackets. XTP's Is all I have used so far other than my cast. Hornady 240's are brutal at top end...
    Last edited by cobia; 06-30-2022 at 12:46 PM.

  8. #28
    Boolit Mold
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    Hello @Land Owner,

    you have the same load data I found for .454 Casull, which tells 32grs as maximum weight of DO37.2 /ACC No.9
    So, from the data sheet I’m wide under the minimum load.
    And, DO37.2 isn’t known as critical at reduced loads like H110, so I don’t understand why the 28grs-Ammo is so hard to extract after shooting.

    Btw., the same powder i use for .357 Mag, there I use fullhouse loads (14grs to 180grs at 390m/s and 11,3grs to 230grs BowlingPinBullets at 330m/s) without any problems in the S&W 627-0.
    So I’m really sure the powder is ok and not a much to fast charge.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    You can use. You can go softer lead. Keep fps down around 1200. You may find loss of accercy, a little, or with lower fps may tighten up groups. You target results will show you the way.

  10. #30
    Boolit Bub
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    Fzr, MD Smith was my go to guy in the past for 454 info. He has since passed away and his web site is now being carried on by another fellow under another name/link.
    You might want to check his data which is now at reloadammo.com For some reason the link can take a while to load..
    Just about every load you can imagine... https://reloadammo.com/reloading-the-454-casull/
    Last edited by cobia; 06-30-2022 at 02:50 PM.

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fzr1000 View Post
    Thank you so much for all your help!
    First of all I reduced the hardness of my lead down to ~13 bnh.
    Testing my absolutely first selfmade boolits (selfmade=boolits, buyed=bullets, correct?) yesterday out of my Ruger Alaskan, worked ok for me.

    All my first-made boolits are too hard with ~22 bnh, they will go back there way to the cooking pot.

    After reading the last post here (if it’s too much of cutting away from the mold the calibration tool will do the work and the boolits can be used after the calibration) I decided to test the modification of the mold.

    So the Lee 452-300 RF with the double cavities is ordered, let’s have a look if it will work fine.

    Sorry for my baby-like english again, hope you can understand what the meaning of my lines should be.
    I try my best, but writing such special stuff in a foreign language is really hard.
    I shoot the Lee 300 without a gas check (powder coated) all the time.

    Your English is fine. I'm not sure what you're worried about. We're not like the French--perfection is not even expected. Plenty of Americans speak much more broken English than anything you are saying here.

  12. #32
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobia View Post
    Fzr, MD Smith was my go to guy in the past for 454 info. He has since passed away and his web site is now being carried on by another fellow under another name/link.
    You might want to check his data which is now at reloadammo.com For some reason the link can take a while to load..
    Just about every load you can imagine... https://reloadammo.com/reloading-the-454-casull/
    Thanks a lot for this page.
    On reloadammo.com there’s 24,0grs the maximum with ACC No.9 with a 255grs Lead SWC!
    There I’m wide overloaded!

    But, for an 315grs Lead Bullet there are 26,8grs the max for ACC 9 too…
    Like that I’m very well with my weight.

    I think till the ammo is pressure checked by the Beschussamt I have strictly slow down.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master

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    Good and Very Good. Safety first. Fun second.

    I had an itch. I scratched and "missed it by 'that' much" (no 'smoking gun' data) but the point was made. I'll shut up now...
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  14. #34
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Land Owner View Post
    Good and Very Good. Safety first. Fun second.

    I had an itch. I scratched and "missed it by 'that' much" (no 'smoking gun' data) but the point was made. I'll shut up now...
    Sorry Mr. Land Owner,

    but now I’m not able to understand what the meaning of your line is ��.
    I don’t understand „sarcasm“ or „humorous lines“, I only can translate words by their „real meaning“.

    The first line with security and fun is understandable.
    Sorry, but could you (or anyone) please reply?
    Reloading and casting is too difficult to gamble with half understood informations.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master

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    I found no specific data, in either my manuals or the Explosia Mfg's data, to prove to you that I believed you were over the maximum load of DO 37.2 for a 255 grain cast boolit [which equals "I had an itch."].

    I posted the data I found, [which equals "I scratched"].

    The data I posted was not convincing, [which equals "missed it by 'that' much" (no 'smoking gun' data)].

    My concern, my posted data, and the M.D.Smith link by cobia, got you to look at 454 Casull loads with safety as the goal. You concluded you were overloaded [which equals "the point was made."].

    The remainder, "I'll shut up now", is self-explanatory and bears no ill will toward you.
    Last edited by Land Owner; 07-02-2022 at 05:16 AM.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  16. #36
    Boolit Bub
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    Frz, BTW, you seem to be a good dude, I would welcome you here verses the thousands of bumbs walking across the Texas boarder! Our current administration is essentially paying people to be non working low life *** and just want their liberal votes. There are plenty of business's begging for people who want to work!

  17. #37
    Boolit Master

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    I have removed the gascheck step in a Lee mold, and removed a bevel base from a Lee mold with an exacto knife. Both molds cast and made perfect bullets afterwards. Just use care, and any tiny imperfection will be ironed out by the sizer.
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT Gianni View Post
    Lee molds have soft enough aluminum that removing the check area is not that difficult. A good machine shop should be able to ream that out. It can be done with a drill press, the problem is truing it up exactly.
    Yup tried drill one myself. Did not come out great. Never tested them to see if it made a difference in accuracy. Humm I smell a project I need to do.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by mto7464 View Post
    Yup tried drill one myself. Did not come out great.
    The lube sizer die will "smooth out" and "put back" some concentricity.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
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    If you test cast with and without GCs, hard cast. Load at least 5 with and 5 without GCs. Mix them all together and shoot 50 or 100 meter groups, 3 or 5 shots each group, with a scope. Tell me what you get…… I got all the bullets into the groups, with and without, and no fliers.
    So the GCs are ok for longer distance or your confidence in a match, but not really crucial for accuracy.
    Today, with powder coating, I use plain base moulds and PC without any gas checks. I run 2,600-2,700 feet per second without leading. And 3/10 inch at 100 meters with a 358 rifle.
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
    Cervantes

    “Never give up, never quit.”
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    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
    Will Rogers

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check