Hey all, I picked up a rifle several weeks back and now have a chamber casting. It turns out to be a .500/450 No 1 BPE round. Of course I cannot find any cases for it. Is it possible to make it from another case? Custom case maker? All thoughts would be welcome.
https://www.ammunitionartifacts.com/...-express-xhml4
No experience with this one but these folks are apparently making from 470 NE brass.
"Do not follow where the path might lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson
Thanks trails4u. I have already talked to them. They can't get the 470 NE brass to reform. I'm on a waiting list with them.
Someone mentioned that they were using 50-70 brass, but if memory serves - there are maybe over a dozen variations of that particular cartridge.
Bertram makes a basic case, and I see that Graf's has some listed as in stock.
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Just started loading for the 500-450 #1 Express, interesting experiment so far.
This is where I started:
https://www.buffaloarms.com/norma-50...nor500ne3.html
Was going to do a write-up on the procedure as soon as I had a viable process nailed down.
Actually fired a batch today, they are currently being spiffed up in the polisher right now.
Not happy so far, too much loss on first firing, cases are splitting at the shoulder.
50-70 WILL NOT work, way too short(I load those too).
My first loads were with a) Lyman 457122 with aluminum "no gas check bullet" gas checks, and b) an Accurate mold that is a similar profile as the Lyman but no hollow point but cut for a real gas check.
Powders were Trail Boss and XMP-5744. The 5744 regulated well and hit hard enough that I suspect it would be adequate to take anything up to and including moose.
Forming 500-450 #1 Express from 500 Nitro Express 3":
1) Polish well, I use crushed walnut media with NuFinish car polish, I want as smooth and slick a surface as I can get.
2) F/L size in 470 N.E. sizer, this starts the necking down. I use Imperial in all forming as lube.
3) F/L size in 500-450 sizer die (CH-4D).
4) Trim to length, I use the Lyman version of the Lee trimmer, I make my own custom length gages for these old and obsolete cartridges. And the Lyman cutter is sharper and larger than the Lee. It makes trimming to length much easier.
5) Chamfer ID/OD
6) Re-polish, before annealing, I like the cases as clean as possible, this removes any trace of lube from the forming process.
7) Anneal
8) Polish to take off the tarnish from the annealing, probably not necessary, but it's my habit.
9) F/L size to ensure chambering.
10) Neck expand. I use the expander from a 458 Win Mag.
11) Prime, charge and seat bullet. I use the seater from the 470 N.E. with custom seater, standard seater is too short. The seater is easy to make, basically it's a standard bolt that has the nose turned down to clear.
12) Remove the de-cap stem from the 500-450 sizer and use the sizer to remove any bell.
Bit of a round-about way to load but when I ordered the sizer die, expanding dies and seater dies weren't available, I'm not sure that they currently are available.
Still need to fine-tune, loss on first firing was unacceptable.
Plan on second load was to put a washer under the lock ring on the die and just neck size. That will allow head spacing on the shoulder. The rim on the 500 is thinner than real 500-450 necessitating the head-space on the shoulder instead of the rim.
First batch I just annealed the neck, going to re-anneal down to the shoulder on 10 pieces and try the old corn meal fire-forming, a little less violent blowing out of the shoulder may reduce the loss.
Left to right, 50-70, good 500-450 #1 Express, 1st firing lost case and 470 Nitro Express.
Last edited by 15meter; 05-30-2022 at 08:59 PM.
Can you make it from the 500 NE?
Yes.Originally Posted by Rockrat78
In fact, my first go was using 500NE brass.
Those need to be head spaced off of the shoulder just as the 470 based cases do.
Thank you Gents for the info. The hunt begins.
I got my sizer die from CH4D, they should be able to set you up with an expander die(https://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/expanding), they will configure the expander any way you want it.
I could not find a seater in stock, I made a longer seater for the 470 seater die:
Left to right, Redding 470 die body, shop made seater, factory 470 seater.
The Redding die takes a standard bolt, I bought a bolt, chucked it up in the lathe and turned down the OD so it would pass through the die body. seemed to do everything I need it to do.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...pot&highlight=
I suspect these are still around somewhere. I just moved, so finding them may be difficult and time consuming.
How about 50-140 Sharps brass 3.25 OAL ? Last I looked Starline had it.
Last edited by missionary5155; 06-09-2022 at 06:41 AM.
"Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.
The longest they have is 50-110 which is still short by about .35”
I do wonder, though, what their extruded case looks like before getting trimmed back.
Maybe they don’t trim that much but we could be getting closer if they would sell untrimmed cases.
Never thought about trying to find Berdan primed cases. Sent me off down the "how to convert Berdan" rabbit hole. There are a number of methods converting to boxer, after reading several, I decided to try the 209 version.
Started with unfired 7mm Mauser's as the sacrificial lambs. Pulled the bullets and dumped the powder.
First try was using a 15/64ths drill and drilling straight through the primer then using a #4 center drill to chamfer the hole. Seated the primer using a mechanic's vise. Pocket is way too tight, buckled the neck.
Second try was drilling with the #4 center drill from the start. Drill in to where the center drill was full diameter plus a couple thousands. Drilled through with a Letter drill "B". Worked much better. Primer could have been a little tighter.
Third try was start through drilling with a 3/16" drill, step up to the "B", then the #4 center drill to chamfer the pocket for the rim on the primer. Got a little puff of smoke and a pop like a kid's cap gun as the 3/16 drill broke through. The thrill of drilling live primers.
Again, primer fit nicely, but could have been just a smidge tighter.
Fourth try was a repeat of #3, but with out the POP.
Thinking that a custom ground cutter would make this an absolute piece of cake.
Now to play with loads, not a lot of rifle loads using shotgun primers. Going to start with the 7mm, $100 rifle that is in solid shape. Should be a good candidate for mousefart load testing.
That works, it opens up for use a bunch of Berdan primed brass that has been languishing in the drawer for years.
Last edited by 15meter; 06-10-2022 at 10:45 PM.
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