RotoMetals2Inline FabricationTitan ReloadingRepackbox
WidenersLoad DataMidSouth Shooters SupplyReloading Everything
Lee Precision
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 33 of 33

Thread: Field and Stream handgun tests

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    contender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Lake Lure NC
    Posts
    2,412
    Sadly,, too many people want "instant gratification" and to get that,, shoot close enough to feel like they are "good shots". It's the world in which they were raised in. These same types scoff at the idea of a handgun being effective at 100-200 or even longer distances. But heck,, that same mindset has been around for as long as handguns have been around.
    I can recall back in the early 1980's,,as I began using a handgun ONLY for deer hunting. My local hunting buddies ragged me pretty good. I heard it all.
    Yet,, we used to do a deer pool. We'd all put $20 in the pot,, and had a scoring system for our kills. Points for does, antler count, weight, biggest rack, ugliest rack, etc. From the time we started to pool & for several years until we stopped,, I never took less than 2nd place. It went from; "You ain't gonna kill no deer with a handgun",,,, to,,, "Dern,, what have you killed now?"
    But even then,, to stigma of handgun hunting sticks. A bunch of local bear hunters REFUSED to allow anyone to use just a handgun on their hunts. One guy swears that a guy shot a bear with a .44 mag,, and never killed it,, yet,, another hunter shot it with a 30-30,, and when they skinned it,, he says that they "shook the hide & the bullets fell off."

    But I digress about the distance & accuracy thing.

    It really boils down to good, efficient, PROPER practice. A good grip, stance, brace,, (if necessary,) sight acquisition, trigger control, and follow through. If the gun is set up for accuracy,, and these things are followed,, a handgun can & will shoot at MUCH longer distances than 10 yds for accuracy.

    And to address the folks above who discuss competition. I both hunt with a handgun, AND shoot USPSA competition. Two totally different types of handgunning. In hunting,, I'm allowed time to make a shot,, (or as an ethical hunter,, pass a shot,) whereas in USPSA,, speed is part of the score. BOTH require accuracy.
    I like to challenge MYSELF,, & I know I'll never be a Grand Master level shooter. But,, I like to think I'm shooting the game enough to develop skills I hope I never need on the street in a self defense situation.

    I know some good USPSA shooters. Yet,, they back away when I offer to let them shoot a .454 Casull at 100 yds. Sometimes it's fear of recoil,, other times, it's an ego thing,, where they know they'll be embarrassed.

    The best thing we can do,, is to TRY & patiently,, carefully, teach others about longer distance handgunning. Doing so,, WITHOUT hurting someone's feelings can be tricky. But it can be done.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master

    jonp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    8,281
    Quote Originally Posted by Thumbcocker View Post
    Korth for $3,700, Python $1,500, Wilson for $3,000. Thats why i dont read them anymore, they arent talking to us average persons
    I Am Descended From Men Who Would Not Be Ruled

    Fiat Justitia, Ruat Caelum

  3. #23
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,970
    Quote Originally Posted by 375supermag View Post
    The only thing golf balls are good for...
    That's not a very nice thing to say, They also make nice handles for tools and presses.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Central Illinois
    Posts
    4,489
    Quote Originally Posted by jonp View Post
    Korth for $3,700, Python $1,500, Wilson for $3,000. Thats why i dont read them anymore, they arent talking to us average persons
    But for $3700 you get a gun that groups at 10 YARDS!! THAT IS 30 FEET!! Its not like you could buy a used Ruger or Smith that would shoot like that at 10 YARDS.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    Paper targets aren't your friends. They won't lie for you and they don't care if your feelings get hurt.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Ala.
    Posts
    1,190
    Well, in all fairness, there were several guns listed that were "affordable".

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,071
    The rise of CHL and action pistol games shortened the ranges and lowered most peoples accuracy expectations.

    50 years ago, the dominant pistol competition was bullseye, a precision shooting game that usually started at 25 yards and required accurate guns & ammo out to 50.

    PPC was probably the only common action game. It likewise demanded precision.

    My favorite type of handgun is what I refer to as a “field gun”. This is an all-round gun that can be used for SD or taking smallish-medium big game (whitetails & hogs) out to 50 yards. Light enough to not be a burden stomping through the brush and concealable under a reasonable cover garment. But not an EDC gun (unless I retire and move to the country.)

    This is usually a 4”, medium-frame DA revolver. For new guns/loads, accuracy cutoff begins with 6 shot groups of 2” or less at 25-yards off the bench. If it won’t do that, we don’t go any further.

    For carry guns, all shots in the 9-ring of a B-8 at 15 yards standing.

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Galena, MD
    Posts
    235
    Quote Originally Posted by Thumbcocker View Post
    Oh no, another Richard Mann article. I get Shooting Illustrated as my NRA membership magazine. 2 months ago, he wrote an article referring to all those who are questioning the new 30 Super Carry as "neophobes". That people are only pushing back on that round because we're a bunch of old curmudgeons who dislike new stuff ONLY because it's new.

    Due to my prior employment for a national magazine/newspaper distributor, I've read literally tens of thousands of gun articles from every gunrag there ever was. This is the 1st time I felt compelled to respond and I did. Editor responded, then I responded back. Made no headway. I've liked Mann's articles in the past and he seems like a good guy, but these days he's trying to make his name as a pot stirrer. Sad state of affairs in the publishing industry.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
    nicholst55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX Metro Area
    Posts
    3,606
    I have felt the same way for many years. I am an old Bullseye shooter, and these (relatively speaking) HUGE groups that I frequently see shot at 7-10 yards simply don't impress me. I realize that they're different disciplines, but I get a chuckle when I hear some of the younger guys talk about shooting 'long range' - at 25 yards!
    Service members, veterans and those concerned about their mental health can call the Veterans Crisis Line to speak to trained professionals. To talk to someone, call 1-800-273-8255 and Press 1, send a text message to 838255 or chat at VeteransCrisisLine.net/Chat.

    If you or someone you know might be at risk of suicide, there is help. Call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255, text a crisis counselor at 741741 or visit suicidepreventionlifeline.org.

  9. #29
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Betwixt the Altamont and Las Trampas in Northern CA
    Posts
    53
    I’m a pretty fair rifleman, and admittedly a pretty poor handgunner by most measures. However, I know that if I’d spent the same effort with my pistols/revolvers I’d be much better. That said, I still want to know what the mechanical limits are of hardware being tested. Or humans being tested IF they are professing to be experts I should follow to better my game. Most gun rags are nothing like the old ones. The American Rifleman and other NRA publications are still “ok”. Handloader and Rifle from Wolfe continue to set the bar: true experts, and true in-depth articles. Guns has become just pretty pictures and quick little stories:1-2 pages max, no new information, by gosh they don’t even list suggested retail prices anymore. They said when questioned that street value varies wildly as an excuse. Here in CA things are so regulated you are almost assured to spend retail, or more, so it would be nice to know.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dead center of Alabama
    Posts
    2,366
    If you have vision that is, shall we say, "compromised" by birthdays, there is a solution for testing handloads at 50 yds. Simply use a larger target. That is the range that starts to give problems with handgun sights-for me at least. I print my own from a homemade template and the larger white bullseye allows me to see the front sight a lot better.Attachment 300540 If 7-10 yds is as far as I could test a gun, I'd just as soon not go to the range. I am no accuracy snob by any stretch but a boolit behaves a lot different at 25 and especially 50 yds than it does at 7-10yds and the only way to know is to shoot it.
    BTW, I am in agreement that the Wolf Publishing guys are a long way ahead of the " Me and Bob went hunting" magazines.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    3,783
    Quote Originally Posted by jonp View Post
    Since Field and Stream and Outdoor Life started putting mountain bikes and rock climbers on the cover I have not taken them seriously.
    Yes!! I thought both were gone. 60 years ago Outdoor life was great and my favorite with Field and steam more of a fishing magazine. My second fav was Sports Afield.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Denial
    Posts
    4,212
    I dunno. . .I'm kinda on the fence with regards to accuracy testing for handguns - at least so far as doing so to write about it goes.

    Back in the '80's and '90's when I was still occasionally reading the gun rags, about the worst I recall seeing for Ransom Rest grouping from a duty-size auto was about 4" at 25 yards. I don't recall for certain, but I want to say this was from something low/middle priced for utilitarianism - such as a Ruger P85. For sake of comparison, I'd like to see the same testing standard applied to a Hi Point, and I'd bet that - by benefit of it being a fixed-barrel blowback with the usual spring and stop surfaces returning the sights to nearly the same relative position each shot - the $200 boat anchor is mechanically more capable than 95% of the people - including decent shooters - that ever pick it up. Frankly, I'd say the same for most tired GI 1911's with a severe case of the rattles, and I've seen numerous instances of bone stock 2" DAO snub revolvers reliably holding milk jug accuracy for 50 yards. The consistency of modern mass production and how these guns function will typically beat out the human frailty we bring to the party - and usually by a lot.

    I'll grant that hunting revolvers and match pistols are a special case where the buyer needs to know what they are getting, but the average modern handgun (made since about 1850) is so much more capable than the average owner and their average need that I'd only be inclined to Ransom Rest a pistol if initial testing seemed to indicate it was horrible. Does it center the group on the sights, run reliably, or present any challenges in operation or maintenance? Answer these things, and I'm likely good.
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master hoodat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Jefferson State
    Posts
    665
    Speaking of snubs, and double action shooting, -- a lot of guys will own a nice SA/DA revolver, and shoot it primarily SA when they want to really "bear down" for accuracy, especially at longer ranges.

    Do yourself a HUGE favor, and get good with DA shooting, even at longer ranges. You'll be surprised to find that it can be done, and by doing it you will correct flaws in your shooting technique that will make you a much better shot. I corrected a horrible flinch problem that I had developed by shooting my 357 in SA only. When you get good and accurate when pulling a 12 pound double action trigger, no trigger will ever seem as bad to you again.

    And many folks would be amazed to find that you CAN shoot a snub with surprising effectiveness at a hundred yards. And often the trajectory that puts your bullet on target at ten or twenty five yards, isn't too far off at 100. jd
    It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check