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Thread: Ideal #3 tool marked "38 S&W M"

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Ideal #3 tool marked "38 S&W M"

    My question is what does the "M" strand for? My WAG would be "Merwin" as in Merwin Hurlbert.


  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy Landy88's Avatar
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    You found a nice set, having the full set and box is pretty rare.

    The "M" is for Military. This was the original name of the 38 Special.
    The first purpose of the Second Amendment is too often overlooked, fostering a liberty of mind and action necessary in the people of a free republic.


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  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    That's a mighty nice find!
    Cognitive Dissident

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks. that explains why the dies are all 95s and the bullet sizes at 358. More of a bonus that I expected. The dipper is app 0.9 cc and is marked "BLACK". I don't have any BP to check the grains but a 1.0 cc LEE dipper is rated at 14.7 gr of FFFg, which seems a bit light for 38 spl and a 358311 bullet.

    Nitro

  5. #5
    Boolit Master hoodat's Avatar
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    I don't believe you're talking 38 Special with that one. 38 S&W is a different cartridge. Larger diameter (and shorter) case, and .360 bullet.
    It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoodat View Post
    I don't believe you're talking 38 Special with that one. 38 S&W is a different cartridge. Larger diameter (and shorter) case, and .360 bullet.
    That was my first thought as well, but the dies are not 38 S&W, and the sizer is app 358. Moot point as I'll probably never use it. I have a bit of a bad collector habit when it comes to the 310 stuff. As much as I try, if it's priced anywhere reasonable I buy it. Shipped I'm into this one for $70, and IMHO the handles on their own would get more than that.

    Nitro

  7. #7
    Boolit Master hoodat's Avatar
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    It kinda got my interest because I actually load and shoot 38 S&W. I love the old steel handles. I've got a complete set of 38 Special with the newer aluminum handles. jd
    It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.

  8. #8
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    My winter project to have sets for all my cowboy calibers got derailed as I got disenchanted with some of the issues. I was working with 38/357, 44 Spl/Mag, 44-40 and 45 Colt and that was a bit much. I now have a pair of open tops in 45 Schofield, I may have to get that combo going.

    My biggest nemesis with the 310 is that it predates the carbide sizer. Keeping the inside of the FL or MR smooth enough to minimize scratching the case is almost a deal breaker.

    Not cheap but i was thinking of buying a small Harrell press and 7/8 carbide sizers.

    I too like the steel handles and have managed to find them in 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 30US (30-40 Krag) and several sets of 270 that I use with 30-06 and 8mm Mauser dies. The only saving grace is that they are compact and the whole collection firs in a large drawer, if you don't count the Tru-Line Jr presses.

    My disease grew a bit as with this set I bought a 1894 tool in 30-30.



    It is in surprisingly good shape but is missing the decapping pin, which is very common. I tried it and it looks like it will work with a 311041 bullet. I have a few molds in that #.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitro-express View Post
    My winter project to have sets for all my cowboy calibers got derailed as I got disenchanted with some of the issues. I was working with 38/357, 44 Spl/Mag, 44-40 and 45 Colt and that was a bit much. I now have a pair of open tops in 45 Schofield, I may have to get that combo going.

    My biggest nemesis with the 310 is that it predates the carbide sizer. Keeping the inside of the FL or MR smooth enough to minimize scratching the case is almost a deal breaker.

    Not cheap but i was thinking of buying a small Harrell press and 7/8 carbide sizers.

    I too like the steel handles and have managed to find them in 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 30US (30-40 Krag) and several sets of 270 that I use with 30-06 and 8mm Mauser dies. The only saving grace is that they are compact and the whole collection firs in a large drawer, if you don't count the Tru-Line Jr presses.

    My disease grew a bit as with this set I bought a 1894 tool in 30-30.



    It is in surprisingly good shape but is missing the decapping pin, which is very common. I tried it and it looks like it will work with a 311041 bullet. I have a few molds in that #.

    Why not just buy a Winchester mold that the tool is designed to work with . Watch ebay and you will find one for a reasonable price. I think I gave $45 for mine and not much if any more for one in .32 WS and one in 38-55 . They are good bullets.
    Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitro-express View Post
    My question is what does the "M" strand for? My WAG would be "Merwin" as in Merwin Hurlbert.

    That is beautiful . The price is unbelievable in todays market . Congratulations.
    Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master hoodat's Avatar
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    Now you've got me wanting to get mine out and mess with it. Let's see now--- go out and pull weeds, or spend a couple hours setting up my 310 loading kit??? hmmmmm.
    It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    The "M" still has me a bit curious. I have not been able to find any reference to it, but I did find a picture of an older tong tool in 30-30 and it is marked 30-30 M.





    IMO it does not stand for Military or Merwin.

    Nitro
    Last edited by nitro-express; 05-23-2022 at 10:02 AM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I believe that it may stand for “Military”, but there is also the possible explanation that it may in some cases stand for “Marlin”. This long after, unless you find some old factory documentation, it’s all speculation.

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    I believe that it may stand for “Military”, but there is also the possible explanation that it may in some cases stand for “Marlin”. This long after, unless you find some old factory documentation, it’s all speculation.

    Froggie
    That is where my brain went, speculation because finding a back in the day worker is not possible. Time to move on, thank goodness I'm attention deficit, moving on is easy. LOL.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitro-express View Post
    My winter project to have sets for all my cowboy calibers got derailed as I got disenchanted with some of the issues. I was working with 38/357, 44 Spl/Mag, 44-40 and 45 Colt and that was a bit much. I now have a pair of open tops in 45 Schofield, I may have to get that combo going.

    My biggest nemesis with the 310 is that it predates the carbide sizer. Keeping the inside of the FL or MR smooth enough to minimize scratching the case is almost a deal breaker.

    Not cheap but i was thinking of buying a small Harrell press and 7/8 carbide sizers.

    I too like the steel handles and have managed to find them in 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 30US (30-40 Krag) and several sets of 270 that I use with 30-06 and 8mm Mauser dies. The only saving grace is that they are compact and the whole collection firs in a large drawer, if you don't count the Tru-Line Jr presses.

    My disease grew a bit as with this set I bought a 1894 tool in 30-30.



    It is in surprisingly good shape but is missing the decapping pin, which is very common. I tried it and it looks like it will work with a 311041 bullet. I have a few molds in that #.
    That one is a Winchester reloading tool, I believe.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy Landy88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    I believe that it may stand for “Military”, but there is also the possible explanation that it may in some cases stand for “Marlin”. This long after, unless you find some old factory documentation, it’s all speculation.

    Froggie
    Yes, in rifle rounds the "M" designated Marlin, with a mold and / or Seating Chamber that were cut for a flat point bullet.
    Last edited by Landy88; 05-24-2022 at 04:04 AM.
    The first purpose of the Second Amendment is too often overlooked, fostering a liberty of mind and action necessary in the people of a free republic.


    “Ironically, the only gun control in 19th century England was the policy forbidding police to have arms while on duty.”
    ~ Don B. Kates, Jr.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landy88 View Post
    You found a nice set, having the full set and box is pretty rare.

    The "M" is for Military. This was the original name of the 38 Special.
    I found another source that mirrored that information. S&W brought out a handgun with the model number MILITARY. It was chambered in a longer version of the 38 Long Colt and it was referred to as the 38 special S&W Military, abbreviated to 38 S&W M. The Military did not run with the handgun or cartridge very long and somewhere along the way the cartridge became the 38 Special for the civilian consumers.

    For some tools "M" did signify Marlin, others Military. Ideal made tools to order for all kinds of calibers for lots of customers.

    It may not be true, but I believe it is. My tools stamped 38 S&W M is made to load 38 Special. I'll keep my eye out for a 358311 mold, as that is what the seating plug fits.

    Nitro.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    My Ideal 38 S&W M is cut for 358250, not the 358311 like i would have expected. I think this was the standard bullet at the time. And yes, the tool is set up to load the .38 Special

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