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Thread: 158 grain 38 bullet ?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    158 grain 38 bullet ?

    This thread is about cast bullets in revolvers only, mainly 6" S&Ws of several models, 38 Spec. and 357 Mag.

    It seems the 158 +or- grain bullet of just about any profile, is the accepted "norm" for the 38 Spec. and 357 Mag. Is this because of tradition or are there other real reasons?

    My experience has shown that anything lighter than 135 grains, is rather iffy accuracy wise. On the other hand, I have shot some 180 grain bullets that seemed to be quite accurate, but I really didn't do much with them because I felt I was giving up too much velocity, especially in the 38 Spec, plus I only had a hundred or so that a fellow gave me and I really not interested in going there.

    It seems to me the actual ideal weight for accuracy and terminal performance would be in the 140-145 grain range. I have had good results with several bullets in that weight range, but once again, I did not have enough bullets to really make a fair evaluation. I am referring to the various nose styles, SWC, TC, RN, RF, etc. and not the full WC style. I use the TC style in all my auto loaders with very good results so I'm wondering if the same style would give satisfactory performance in the 38-357 revolver.

    What has your personal experience with bullets in the afore mentioned weight range been?

    I realize there are so many variables, sized diameter, alloy, lube, GC or plain base, and so forth, that what may work for one person won't for another. However, across the board, other people's results can at least be a guide as to what to expect.
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    Very good results with the Lee 125 rnfp in .38 special, .357, and 9mm. It shoots to sights in model 10s for me. 158 grain boolits shoot about 2" above the front sight in fixed sighted guns from my hands.

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  3. #3
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    I shoot a 158 Keith style SWC in .38 because they work so well.
    I also shoot a 148DEWC. It does real well also, but seems to have less range before accuracy falls off.

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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I shoot 158 Keith from my 2” snubnose S&W because it gives the most penetration of anything I’ve tried, and it’s accurate.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master MarkP's Avatar
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    I have shot at 1,000's of LEE 105 SWC in my 38's. S&W M64,M14,M27,M60,637,638,642. 4.6 gr of BE and the fixed sights on my 4" & 2" M64's are right on. Also have shot several of the NOE clones of the Lyman 77 gr WC.

    The 105's in my 8-3/8" M14 & M27 do not shoot as well as a 148 WC or 158 FN but still decent

    The LEE 125 FN also shots good for me as well.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    My S&W 38 Special seems to shoot best with the Lyman 358-156 (about 158 grains with my alloy) and the 148 grain DEWC. My Ruger 357 seems to like something slightly heavier (RCBS 163 grain SWC).
    Hick: Iron sights!

  7. #7
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    For me, the Lyman 358242 (121 gr) and its NOE clone is an absolute tack driver over Promo/Red Dot 4.2 gr in a 38 Spl case or 5.0 gr. in a .357 case using a Sicurity Six, GP 100, Blackhawk, or Mod 19. That said, I also really like the Lyman 358495 (141 gr), 358477 (150 gr.), 358156 bare-bottom (158 gr.) and 358429 (170 gr.). I pretty much stick with Promo or Unique or 2400 for 38/357 and never use GC's.
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    Several thousand though a 38sp and 357. I prefer the 140-150 weight. The 125gr can be driven hard and is good for self defense in jwords.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed_Shot View Post
    For me, the Lyman 358242 (121 gr) and its NOE clone is an absolute tack driver over Promo/Red Dot 4.2 gr in a 38 Spl case or 5.0 gr. in a .357 case using a Sicurity Six, GP 100, Blackhawk, or Mod 19. That said, I also really like the Lyman 358495 (141 gr), 358477 (150 gr.), 358156 bare-bottom (158 gr.) and 358429 (170 gr.). I pretty much stick with Promo or Unique or 2400 for 38/357 and never use GC's.
    In my GP100, Blackhawk and Mod 19, 15 and 14 I will agree with the Promo load of about 4gr or so of Promo. Never use GC's either
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    For full power .357 loads the Lee 158 rnfp and 2400 are hard to beat.

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  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    The great majority of fixed sight .38 Special service revolvers were targeted at the factory with158- grain lead ammo. A modern SWC or ogival flatnosed having a meplat larger than half of the bullet diameter gives better terminal performance than the LRN. A charge of 3.5 grains of Bullseye is a good approximation for standard pressure loads and 4.2 grains for +P.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 05-21-2022 at 08:26 PM. Reason: Correct spelling errors caused by autofil
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    It seems the 158 +or- grain bullet of just about any profile, is the accepted "norm" for the 38 Spec. and 357 Mag. Is this because of tradition or are there other real reasons?
    Yes and Yes.

    158 grains is the traditional weight for the .38 Special and by default for the .357 Magnum. Fixed sight guns until very recently were regulated for that weight projectile at the nominal velocity of the round. If your gun shoots to the sights with any significant difference in loading, you are extremely lucky.

    I'm not sure about S&W, but I do remember reading that Taurus regulates their .38 Special snubbies for the 125 +P JHP now. True or not, I can't say.

    Robert

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    Boolit Master MOA's Avatar
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    When I went looking for my "one-an-only" cast boolit mold to be used for my 38 special and 357, I settled for one of NOE's molds. Works great on either caliber, and I can play with my alloy if I want to be moving the grain weight up or down a bit if needed.









    Last edited by MOA; 05-30-2022 at 08:25 AM.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    Proven loads from bullseye competition shooters who demand accuracy:
    148 HBWC over 2.7 WST or 2.8 BE. Usually a 25 yd. load, but can work at 50 in some guns.
    158 LRN or SWC over 4.3 Unique or 3.0-3.3 WST. Good 50 yd. load depending on bullet quality and gun.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    The lswc cuts a nice hole in the target for scoring. All depends what weight/ velocity the fixed sights are regulated for.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonp View Post
    Several thousand though a 38sp and 357. I prefer the 140-150 weight. The 125gr can be driven hard and is good for self defense in jwords.
    The 140 gr Lee SWC is Outstanding in my 5" (not 6") S&W M&P loaded to typical 4.~ Unique.. same bullet performs exceptionally well in a DW PorkChop 357.
    No Other 38/357 on the Farm seems to prefer them...Preferring 158's
    Last edited by racepres; 05-22-2022 at 11:39 AM.

  17. #17
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    The OP has asked a question of WHY the 158 grn is the "norm" when discussing bullet weight. And many excellent posts show how well many things perform.
    But to try & answer the question of why,,, we must delve into history a bit. As many calibers were being developed,, the rifling twist played a part in stabilizing a bullet. So,, once an accurate load was developed (the the standards of that time period,) and mass manufacturing followed,, many "standard" weight bullets became THE one to build guns for. I've often studied this a bit,, with a thought of "Why not rounding off the weight to 160 grns?"
    Sadly,, all the answers to our questions are lost to history,, because the designers & developers are long dead.

    But,, you can experiment with different weights,, to determine which bullet weight is the most accurate in your gun,, at the velocities you load,, and at the distances you shoot. Quite often,, I've experienced many firearms give superb accuracy,, at longer ranges,, with a "heavier than standard" bullet.

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  18. #18
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    I've had very good results for years with the H&G #51 SWC at about 160 grs. in ww alloy when used in both the .38 Special and the .357, though I no longer load the latter. I never could get the lighter H&G #12B SWC, about 140 grs. or so in ww alloy to shoot as well as the #51. I have an LBT 358-180 FN mould, about 182 grs, in ww alloy. While okay in the .357, it's too much bullet for the .38 Special if you want a decent velocity. 160 gr. bullets often shoot very close to point of aim in most fixed sighted revolvers.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master oldhenry's Avatar
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    I like the looks of that NOE boolit that MOA shows: it looks similar to the MP" Hammer".

    I get good results with the Lyman 358477, 358429 & 358432 and the MP "Hammer". Surprisingly the SAECO 158RN is very accurate. When PB was available I use 3.5 to 4.5 grains with all of them. Now I use HP-38 & WST.

    Overall the 358432 is the best (for me).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    The great majority of fixed sight .38 Special service revolvers were targeted at the factory with158- grain lead ammo. A modern SWC or ogival flatnosed having a meplat larger than half of the bullet diameter gives better terminal performance than the LRN. A charge of 3.5 grains of Bullseye is a good approximation for standard pressure loads and 4.2 grains for +P.
    I have worked some with fixed sight revolvers - 38S&W Victory Model and the 38 Special Victory, and various S&W Hand Ejectors in 32S&W Long. I defer to Outpost75, but with a fixed rear sight and wishing to hit to point of aim you are a bit restricted. Elevation with the same weight bullet can be adjusted to a point; if the bullet is shooting too high, and increase in velocity will lower the point of impact. But at some point you can only increase the velocity by so much. So you need to measure the velocity with a good chronograph to make sure of where you are at.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check