Reloading EverythingSnyders JerkyRepackboxInline Fabrication
Lee PrecisionRotoMetals2MidSouth Shooters SupplyWideners
Load Data Titan Reloading
Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Observations from Fifty Years of Boolit metal scrounging

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    12

    Observations from Fifty Years of Boolit metal scrounging

    Following are some observations I have made over the last 50 years melting and blending about 50 tons of boolit base metals (Lead (Pb), Antimony, (Sb) and Tin, (Sn), Copper (Cu)) for bullet casting.
    In the beginning, 1970’s, when just getting into the hobby, everything was pretty much a guess regarding the elements contained in the many pieces of “Lead” I collected. Over the years, the vast majority of source metals I collected, melted and blended have been Wheel Weights (COWWs, Soft WW’s). A fair amount of type metals (Linotype, Stereotype, Monotype and Foundry type), Tin / Lead solders, radiation shielding, shot, miscellaneous soft metals such as roof ventilation boots, plumbers lead, shower pans and pewter were also collected, melted and used.
    In the beginning I had only literature and an occasional laboratory assay to help guide me regarding the composition of my metals. As a result of this my alloys were frequently less than optimal for my desired cast boolits. Later, (within the last 10 years) I have benefited from X-ray fluorescence technology XRF.

    WHEEL WEIGHTS:
    • I estimate that I have gathered, sorted and melted in excess of 50 tons of wheel weight material over 50 years, maybe more.

    RUN OF TIRE SHOP MATERIAL (ROTS)
    • ROTS is everything gathered from the tire shop, COWWs, Soft WWs, Zinc WWs, Trash, etc.
    • I normally, dump the “ROTS” material on my paved driveway and rinse off all the dirt, tobacco spit, etc before starting to sort. I sort the weights into four categories COWW (Pb, Sb alloy), Soft WW (Nearly pure Pb), Zinc (Zn) WWs and Iron / Steel, (Fe) WWs.

    Run of tire shop yield (ROTS):
    My last 5 tons of this material has yielded:
    • COWW Clean Ingot Metal = about 55 % of the ROTS weight
    • Soft WWs Clean Ingot Metal = about 5 % of ROTS weight
    • Zinc WWs about 10 % of ROTS weight
    • Iron WWs about 25 % of ROTS weight
    • Trash about 5 % of ROTS weight
    • In general, I get 50% to 60 % of the ROTS material's weight in clean usable metal ingots (COWW & Soft WW metals)
    • It is interesting to note that the % of COWW & Soft WW metal has been declining about 2.5% / year over the last 5 Yrs.

    METAL YIELD (WEIGHT) FROM SORTED WWS:
    • COWWs yield about 85 % clean alloy in ingot form (15 % Steel clips).
    • Soft WWs yield about 95 - 98% clean alloy in ingot form.

    WHEEL WEIGHT METAL XRF RESULTS:
    • I have sampled several tons of COWWs and Soft (Glue On) WW metal over the past decade.
    • The average XRF Analysis has shown the following:
    o COWW = Pb +96%, Sb 3.0 % to 3.2 %, Sn 0.0 % to .2%
    o Soft Glue on WW = Pb 99+ %, sometime a little Sb normally < .02% Sb

    ZINC (Zn) WHEEL WEIGHTS:
    • While I am diligent in my sorting process to remove as many Zinc WWs as I can identify, some always get through into the melt. While I do not have accurate temperature control in my melting process (wood fire, large metal pot) I have never had my COWW ingot metal contaminated with enough Zinc to ruin its quality only trace of Zn identified in XRF on occasion. I do find an occasional Zinc WW in the clips skimmed from the top of the molten COWW alloy, however, these infrequently show any sign of melting. I believe my success in Zinc WW removal is careful sorting and when melting, removing all clips from atop the melted alloy just as soon as the alloy is molten.


    TYPE METALS:
    • I estimate that I have gathered approximately 5 tons of type metals over the past 50 yrs. These metals have normally been identified as spacers, linotype (slugs and ingots), stereo type Ingots, monotype and foundry type blends (lots of single letter material dumped in 5 gal. buckets).
    • Following are results of recent XRF analysis of the various metals usually samples of 1,000 lb lots of these metals.
    o Foundry / Mono blend: Pb = 60.5% to 64.8%, Sb = 21 % to 25 %, Sn = 10.8 % to 12.6 %.
    o Lino blend (22 lb ingots and slugs): Pb = 83 % to 85 %, Sb 12 % and Sn 3.5 – 4 %.
    o Stereotype Ingots
     I have found several “Imperial Stereo Metal” ingots over the years with XRF Pb = 72.5%, Sb = 16%, Sn = 11.5 %.
    o Spacer Metal: Spacer materials have varied widely in their Pb, Sb and Sn content my experience has been Pb = 84 % to 85%, Sb 9 % - 12% and Sn around 4 %.


    LEAD TIN SOLDERS:
    • Normally I find solders in the form of 1 lb bars and pieces of solder wire spools.
    • The National Lead bars labeled:
    o 111 = 50 % Sn and 50 % Pb.
    o 666 = 39 % Sn, 1 % Sb and 40 % Pb

    • The pieces of solder spools I gathered were mostly rosin core and acid core. A collection of over 100 lbs of this solder melted into one batch, yielded about 40 % Sn with 60 % Pb per XRF.

    • Bell Wiping solder = 38% Sn with 62 % Pb per XRF

    • LEAD FREE SOLDERS:
    o These have normally been reported by the Mfg. as 95 % Sn, 5 % Sb with some Silver and other metals present in small amounts by certain Mfgrs.


    RADIATION SHIELDING:
    • Normally the lead sheeting found in X-Ray room walls is very nearly pure Pb per XRF.
    • Nuclear medicine containers:
    o These containers, used to shield nuclear (radioactive) medicines, have been either pure Pb or an alloy of about 97.5 % Pb and 2.5 % Sb per XRF.
    My understanding as that these Nuclear Medicine Pigs normally contain isotopes which decay rapidly and that the health care institution using such "Pigs" must hold them until the ionizing radiation reaches background levels for 60 days. In other words there are no radiation risk to us folks melting the Pigs.

    MISCELLANEOUS LEAD OBJECTS:
    • Misc. Lead sheet objects such as roof vent “boots”, shower pans, rings from cast iron sewer pipes, etc have almost always been + 99 % pb per XRF

    RECLAIMED LEAD SHOT:
    • I have worked with several hundred pounds of reclaimed shot. This material was difficult to melt consuming a lot of time and fuel and repeated fluxing to produce clean ingots.
    • The material was between 2% and 6 % Sb with the remainder Pb per XRF.
    • I guess the shot was a blend of “Chilled Shot” and “Magnum Shot”.

    RECLAIMED RANGE BULLETS:
    • I have no experience with reclaimed range bullet metals.

    PEWTER:
    • I have collected and melted about 1 ton of pewter metal. As you might imagine just about any pewter object I could identify and melt was included.
    • In general if the pewter has a dull grey patina (pre melt) it may contain small amounts of Pb with the remainder normally Sn, Cu (Copper) and in some cases a little Sb.
    • Bright shiny silver pewters are normally + 95 % Sn with the remainder Cu and on occasion Sb.

    POWDER COATING:
    • In the last couple of years I have experimented with Eastwood Lime Green Hot Coat, Shake and Bake Application method.
    • While the application of this coating results in a greater investment of time, I sure like the finished product for cleanliness with good performance.

    MY OBSERVATIONS:

    • As you can see the expected values of the Pb, Sb and Sn present in many base metal alloys varies somewhat from the values reported in much of the literature.

    • My experience is that it is impossible to determine the elements present in any item or comingled lot of items without correct sampling and XRF analysis.

    • Test such as thumb nail penetration, pencil hardness, dull thud vs ring when metal is dropped on concrete, gold colored patina (tin presence), Saeco, Lee, Brinnell hardness test, etc, etc, etc, offer very little information regarding the combination and percent of elements contained in the sample.

    • Since I started using XRF on my source metals going into a desired alloy the quality of my alloys and cast boolits have improved considerably.

    • I believe if you want to be reasonably sure of the amount of the desired elements (Pb, Sb, Sn) in your alloy, you must have reliable XRF analysis for each of you input metals.

    I hope these ramblings of an old man are helpful

  2. #2
    Boolit Master MarkP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Omaha NE
    Posts
    1,248
    Holy Moly 50 tons that is a lot of Pb.

    I have the same experience with using reclaimed shot, also have had steel shot float to the top. I told the lead miner about that and he added magnets to his operation. I would buy gallon milk jugs of it for $0.60 / lb un tumbled just water washed and screened or $0.95 graphited. It did not seem to make a difference melting un-tumbled vs tumbled and graphited shot both still had tons of oxides floating. High surface to volume ratio with all of the small spheres.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master
    bangerjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    out of here, wandering somewhere in the SW.
    Posts
    10,163
    I also XFR 100% of my feed metal ingots. I keep them sorted and marked with metal stamps on top and paint on the ends of the trapezoid ingots for easy access. No questions on here like "What is it" or "What did I find"!

    I ONLY use Lee, SAECO and RCBS molds for ease of storage and handling. I leave x-ray shielding lead pieces as-is for easy flat storage.

    Since 2013, I have used exclusively PC. At first, a bunch of others and I on here developed the shake-n-bake method and it does work, but now I do only ESPC with my two static guns for perfect coatings in any weather.

    Congrats on all the Pb processed! I hope your children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren are into casting and shooting!!!!!!!

    banger

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Communist New Jersey
    Posts
    907
    Must be nice to have your own XRF gun!!!! Do they need to be calibrated occasionally?

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    England,Ar
    Posts
    7,695
    Thats an interesting post, Alloy. I haven't processed as many pounds of alloy that you have but my findings/expierences just about mirror yours.

    A few things that I have seen, not in any particular order;
    I'm seeing steel weights slowly edging out Zinc weights.
    I'm seeing stick-on weights slowly edging out clip-on weights.
    Back in the 1970's I remember seeing an occasional weight float on top of my melt and not want to melt. So I guess Zinc weights were around back then. I have no way of knowing but I suspect that they came into the country on imported cars?

    The main thing that I'm seeing is that lead is getting harder to find. Its still out there but free and/or cheap requires more effort to find.

  6. #6
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Hoover, AL
    Posts
    25
    Thank you for taking the time to prepare this post. Very good info for someone like me “preparing to cast their first bullet”. This place is an incredible wealth of knowledge.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    kalif.
    Posts
    7,232
    Today most of my scrap alloy is reclaimed bullet from outdoor ranges. I only keep the lead bullets or 45cal jacketed. Everything else gets tossed. Gave up on ww years ago out here, far too much work sorting to get a small amount of castable alloy. Though I still have about 300# I havent melted yet. I do have a buddy that came into 2000# of lead sheeting. He is melting it into ingots & stacking it deep. So I have that as a future source too.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
    NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check