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Thread: Are 2nd coats worth doing?

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    Are 2nd coats worth doing?

    Just tried powder coating for the first time tonight. I watched Elvis ammo on YouTube do a huge batch, he didnt pay too much attention on how he placed them. I'm sure a lot of you have seen this? I mean it wasn't absolutely perfect but the coating was 99% it look like on his vid. The problem is it was about a week ago when I watch that video and I forgot he lowers the temp to 275 deg. I had forgot about this temporarily until they were done, had some of them stick together, and they of course leave a bare spot when I break them apart. Thats why he lowers the temp.
    Also about half of them did not cover very well on the outer bearing surface rings of the bullet. The most important part. I think that was the lack of powder, I should've been more powder when I was coating/ swirling them.
    Using Eastwood Ford Blue, just figured I would get peoples opinion on a second coat before I try it. I did them at the 400 for 20 min and some came out really well almost perfect. Others not so much due too the non coverage or leaving a place from pulling apart.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    At this point, as long as there is no lube on them (I spray with One-Shot prior to sizing) it won't hurt to recoat them. They could of course be remelted/recast, but since they're already at the bullet stage, might as well just recoat. Prior to that, I'd size, load and shoot some, and see how they function. Might be just fine.
    Loren

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
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    Ok I might try it, thanks for your input. Does it still create an imperfection with the chip of where it was stuck together or does it flow smooth and fill in?

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Just make sure you don’t have to much on them. The first couple time I PCd I did 2 coats, boy did they look good! 100% coverage and the shine like $1,000 paint job on a Mercedes! The problem was none of the would chamber, gas checks wouldn’t fit, resizing didn’t make a difference, I seriously think it had something to do with elasticity of the powder coat. You run them through the sizer and it seems like they spring back! Wound up remelt about 500 bullets. Just saying too much powder coat can be a bad thing. If you can I would probably load and shoot a couple as they are now. No sense fixing something if it’s not broken! Five or at the most 10 rounds will probably tell you what you need to know. If the second coat screws them up not much you can doExcept re-melt them. Oh and don’t try removing the powder coat with some type of solvent. Been there done that and cleaned up the mess I made trying.
    Last edited by poppy42; 05-21-2022 at 01:35 AM. Reason: I hate freaking auto correct!!!!!!!!
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  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Rapier's Avatar
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    I have been powder coating for a couple of decades, who taught you, that to ever mess up the base on a bullet was a good idea?

    Try going to ACE and get a piece of 1/4” hardware cloth, use a large punch to round the holes. So that the nose fits in and stopps. Bend the sides into a box, tie the corners with stainless wire, turn the box upside-down. Forms your coated bullet, nose down tray or holder for the oven.
    Make a long needle nose set of pliers with the nose heated red hot then bent in to just touch. These are used to pick up the coated bullets and place them in the bullet tray nose down.
    Shake in an air tight large mouth container.
    Bake for 20 minutes at 400. Cool, remove, recoat and rebake. No gas check required up to 2,600 fps.
    Size using case lube to the groove diameter. I use auto chrome and wheel coating.

    My 358 MGP guns (2) with RCBS 200g plain base flat nose shoot 3/10s inch at 100 meters at 2,600 fps with 1680.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapier View Post
    I have been powder coating for a couple of decades, who taught you, that to ever mess up the base on a bullet was a good idea?

    Try going to ACE and get a piece of 1/4” hardware cloth, use a large punch to round the holes. So that the nose fits in and stopps. Bend the sides into a box, tie the corners with stainless wire, turn the box upside-down. Forms your coated bullet, nose down tray or holder for the oven.
    Make a long needle nose set of pliers with the nose heated red hot then bent in to just touch. These are used to pick up the coated bullets and place them in the bullet tray nose down.

    Shake in an air tight large mouth container.
    Bake for 20 minutes at 400. Cool, remove, recoat and rebake. No gas check required up to 2,600 fps.


    Size using case lube to the groove diameter. I use auto chrome and wheel coating.

    My 358 MGP guns (2) with RCBS 200g plain base flat nose shoot 3/10s inch at 100 meters at 2,600 fps with 1680.
    Ok I just googled hardware cloth, didnt realized that's what it was called. I pretty much understand everything except the needle nose plier modification. Any pics?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master fastdadio's Avatar
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    I have a needle nose pliers that are spring open. I find them much easier to use for boolits than a normal pair. When you're pinching and placing 100's of boolits at a time, my fingers get tired.
    Like these.
    https://www.amazon.com/Spring-Precis...3179190&sr=8-4

    I have on occasion, double coated a batch of boolits for poor coverage. The only ones that became tight to chamber because of it were the Lee bore rider design. The sizing die does not resize the bore riding nose, and they became tight to chamber. It was a small batch and I shot them anyway. They did fine.
    Last edited by fastdadio; 05-21-2022 at 08:35 PM.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I stand up my bullets on a silicone baking sheet. I also don't shoot a lot of pistol bullets, mainly rifle, so my volume is a few hundred at a time, not a thousand.

    When picking up bullets to put on the sheet I use a set of angled tweezers. I slip some shrink tubing over the tips and swirl them around in the powder a bit before using them. I've only done a few thousand that way but they work well.

    Beware of the Elvis advice. You still have to cook the bullets at the mfg recommended temps to get a full cure.

    I've never used a second coat. Just isn't needed.

  9. #9
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    Manns50

    I've been powder coating long enough to have almost used up my original pound of Harbor Freight Red. The stuff has worked reasonably well but most of my bullets have been lubed with conventional lube sizers and Lars Lube. My new order of "Signal Blue" powder arrived today from Smoke 4320 and I coated a couple batches in a Cool Whip container with a few Airsoft BB's. What a difference! Coverage very close to 100%. The remaining Harbor Freight may end up in the trash.

    I stand mine up on a cake pan with nonstick tinfoil using a pair of needle nose pliers with no grooves in the tips. After they get an accumulation of powder built up they leave no marks on bullets. The convection oven is set at 400 and time is around 18 to 20 minutes. As you observed if the bullets are touching during the baking process they stick together so I'm going to continue to stand them up.

    Sizing is with an old leaker Lyman 450. Rather than fix it I just run it dry with the powder coats. Lee's push through sizers work well too.

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
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    Ya I'm not using the airlift BB's, they seem to coat fine without those. I did have to change what I was straining them with, I first used a mesh baking sheet for an air fryer but it was too course, scraping some of the PC away. Found one of those powder coated file holder and its smoother to the touch, works much better. My 2nd coat did ok but def try to avoid the 2nd coat in the future. First batch was really good but my 2nd toaster oven, temp may have been different or not sure what but they were not as good. Still experimenting with the two small toaster ovens I have and learning where the temp is according to the dial. I have a spare wireless smoking thermometer I may have to utilize get the temps spot on.... get consistent results. I'm determined to get this right, get away from the 45/45/10.

    Using a Lee push through sizer and I tried some of them last night with the PC on them and seem ok. The bearing surface of the bullet is really thin on PC once push through the sizer, almost looks like its bare lead but I think its just thin and I'm seeing the lead through the PC.

    How do the bases turn out when standing them up?

  11. #11
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    Dump your HF powder and try to forget anything you may have picked up from Elvis then order some Carolina Blue from Smoke 4320 and follow his instructions to the letter. Do that and you won't ever need to even think about a second coat. Oh yeah, and if you're applying your powder by 'shake n' bake', use the airsoft BBs. You'll get a much more even coating.

    Bill
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  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    Just sort out the good ones and recoat the others, lightly. Or use some tumble lube LLA or BLL on them. Some times you loose coating when sizing also. I stand all mine, tried the dump once, not for me. I never turned down the temp, if air cooling, just wait until the temp is low. There is a point where the PC is not sticky and not hard. Doesn't work if WD.
    Whatever!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    As long as you shake off the excess powder there is no issue with bases when stood up. When using plain base bullets I like to size them base first. Gas check bullets get sized nose first.

    Yes, if the bullet is sized a lot the PC coating looks thin. Don't let the looks deceive you, the PC is still there. I like to size before and after PC. Gives me a much more consistent bullet, IMHO.

  14. #14
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    I size B4 and after here! I just like smooth shiny boolits. That is why I use ESPC 100% now. Even back when a bunch of guys & I on here were developing the shake-n-bake methods back in 2013, I only used ONE coat. Never have seen the need for two, but I do not use those weird metallic psycho powder some like to try. Many do not coat well with the pigments involved. I stick with the SOLID primary colors and bled for other colors based on the color wheel. You only need 4 colors of powder!

    Forget that clown on utube! Most powders are engineered to cure at 400F for 10 minutes AFTER it turns shiny. That is all I EVER use. Never any leading or grease smoke or dirty barrels.............................since 2013.

    Good luck!

    bangerjim

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub
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    Thanks for all the input greatly appreciated. No I have some HF red I bought yeas ago but I never used it. I have the Ford light blue hot coat from Eastwood currently, only thing Ive used. Seems to coat great just have to perfect the application and curing method. I will pick up some airlift BB's and maybe pickup some non stick foil. I cut up a silicone mat been using that for my trays, usually use two diff toaster ovens. One seems really close to dial temps but other is way off. So I will get out my spare smoking temp probe and I'll give it a go. I was using a temp gun as well but that's hard to get an accurate temperature. I had an old oven thermometer is what I was using but guarantee the accuracy. Seems like the temp is everything along with bullet placement. If it wasn't for them touching I think I would have perfect bullets so it's working OK just the application or method.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Yep, I'd check the oven temp first to make sure you are in the right range. You are closer to great bullets than you might think.

    PS and yes, even here in the desert I use airsoft BB's (from Smoke) to shake and bake. IMHO they leave a more consistent coating on the bullets.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
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    Single coat should be all you need if you are doing it correctly. A second coat can be used if you want to increase boolit diameter.

  18. #18
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by bangerjim View Post
    I size B4 and after here! I just like smooth shiny boolits. That is why I use ESPC 100% now. Even back when a bunch of guys & I on here were developing the shake-n-bake methods back in 2013, I only used ONE coat. Never have seen the need for two, but I do not use those weird metallic psycho powder some like to try. Many do not coat well with the pigments involved. I stick with the SOLID primary colors and bled for other colors based on the color wheel. You only need 4 colors of powder!

    Forget that clown on utube! Most powders are engineered to cure at 400F for 10 minutes AFTER it turns shiny. That is all I EVER use. Never any leading or grease smoke or dirty barrels.............................since 2013.


    Good luck!

    bangerjim
    Can you clarify what ESPC is? I'm sorry probably should know this.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manns50 View Post
    Can you clarify what ESPC is? I'm sorry probably should know this.
    ESPC is "Electro Static Powder Coating" done with an engineered static gun to apply powder evenly to any surface. It is how the powder is applied in industry. Not with tubs or BBs or shaking or holding your mouth just right.....just perfect coated every time.

    If you ever have a question on an acronym used on here ( and we use PLEANTY of 'em!) there is a sticky thread of tons of them explained on here.

    And there are sticky threads discussing ESPC vs. shake-n-bake methods.

    banger

  20. #20
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by bangerjim View Post
    ESPC is "Electro Static Powder Coating" done with an engineered static gun to apply powder evenly to any surface. It is how the powder is applied in industry. Not with tubs or BBs or shaking or holding your mouth just right.....just perfect coated every time.

    If you ever have a question on an acronym used on here ( and we use PLEANTY of 'em!) there is a sticky thread of tons of them explained on here.

    And there are sticky threads discussing ESPC vs. shake-n-bake methods.

    banger
    Ok that makes sense, thanks for explaining that to me. Ya I'm familiar with the process and have had items powder coated but never purchased the equipment.
    I actually have an account that I just serviced their extinguishers, and I frequent a lot because of it. They are a large plant that does powder coating, one of their ovens is the largest in North America. They are next to a company that manufactures liquid holding semi tanks and they are separate businesses that work hand in hand.
    As I was doing the extinguisher service I ask if they would sell me some powder. He said he's never had anyone ask but sure something could be arranged. Maybe need to look into that.
    But they do items of all sizes, even down to walk in's on personal items. Interesting watching the process in a large scale, of items of all shapes and sizes on a hanging chain being drawn through the spraying process from guys spraying them and through the ovens.
    Last edited by Manns50; 05-26-2022 at 05:40 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check