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Thread: Developing a 35-350 Legend load

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Question Developing a 35-350 Legend load

    So here we go...

    I would like to put together a 350 Legend cast load in a single shot rifle for shooting a 200 grain WFNGC cast bullet at 1800-2000 fps. I'm nick-naming this one the 35-350 Legend load to salute the 35 Remington. Why that combo? Because...

    • ...I like the history of the 35 Remington; especially with a cast 200 grain 35 caliber load traveling 1800-2000 fps.
    • ...I like the 200 grain WFNGC bullet and want to build a host rifle around it.
    • ...I cannot readily find a 35 Remington single-shot or bolt-action to host the 200 grain WFNGC bullet, but plenty of 350 Legend. Normally, 35 Remington is found in lever-actions, but my safari's are on a paper or steel target (not a hunter). Since I reload, normally don't prefer the firearms that sling empty cartridges on the shooting range floor. Revolvers, single-shots, and bolt-actions are just dandy. Prefer my lever-actions and semi-auto's at the range to be 22lr. (yea, it's crazy, but humor me)


    Anyway, there are bits and pieces of info for this type of 200 grain cast load already floating around the forums for 350 Legend, but I haven't seen somebody actually pull off reporting what the final results were. Did they get to the velocities similar to a 35 Remington? Did they run out of case capacity? Top out with too much pressure with the 350 Legend before getting that 200 grainer to something 35 Remmy-like?

    Planned on picking up a Henry or CVA single shot in 350 Legend as a 35 caliber host. Currently, have 5744 and RL-7 powders to start development with, and may have to go to a slightly faster burn rate if case capacity is an issue. Was then going to chrony the test results at the range.

    Before plunging in and finding I'm at a dead-end too quickly, does anyone have some feedback on what they have found with this heavier 200 grain in 350 Legend? Realistic to attempt this with good results?

    I've read up on the trials-n-tribulations of reloading the 350 Legend (SAAMI chamber dimensions, throat clearance issues, etc...). Was planning on sizing the 200 gr bullets to .356" when applying the gas-checks. Maybe would size to .357" if I didn't feel it would be bumping up against the tolerances. Seems even a tumble coating of Alox on the bullets, or a little spring-back from attempting a .357" resizing, might cause chambering issues if I'm already tight up against the maximum .357 specification for 350 Legend. Without an actual rifle in hand yet, most of this just speculation/worry/concern on my part.

    Mostly just reading these forums over the years to learn and apply to my reloading/casting. Look forward to friendly discussion and knowledge sharing.


    Steve
    Last edited by Altcaliber; 05-20-2022 at 09:35 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Your not really developing anything new. Your not fundamentally changing the cartridge, performance, bullet, etc. we owned one at one point in a bolt action (which I think you can stretch the legs on rather than semi) and loaded rcbs 35-200 fn mould for at max data w h110, 4198, and lil gun. We had best results w h110 and tremendous accuracy. We loaded her up to top data off hogdon’s website. I believe the legend will always be a close second best compared to 35 rem but you can’t make it something it’s not.

  3. #3
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by odfairfaxsub View Post
    Your not really developing anything new. Your not fundamentally changing the cartridge, performance, bullet, etc. we owned one at one point in a bolt action (which I think you can stretch the legs on rather than semi) and loaded rcbs 35-200 fn mould for at max data w h110, 4198, and lil gun. We had best results w h110 and tremendous accuracy. We loaded her up to top data off hogdon’s website. I believe the legend will always be a close second best compared to 35 rem but you can’t make it something it’s not.
    You are right, I'm not developing anything new. I'm developing something new for me that I gave a name to. Sometimes I even name my rifles too. It doesn't change them, but gives them a personality. I have "Skeeter Skelton" and "Keith" loads too in my log. So, I'm calling my load the 35-350 load as a salute to the 35 Remington. Seems fitting.

    What were you able to get for velocity in your 200 grain loads? I like the rcbs 35-200 fn, but I'm a fan of Lee molds, so the Lee 35 caliber 200gr mold has my interest. Hodgdon's website doesn't list any loads for a 200 grain in 350 Legend. As stated in my opening post, many say they had best results with this powder or that bullet. With no official data out, I am pursuing a 200 grain load that can approach a certain velocity.

    FWIW, I'm not trying to make the 350 Legend be a 35 Remington. Rather, trying to find a readily available single shot, or bolt action, 35 caliber host that can approach velocities for at 200 grain bullet at 1800-2000 fps. I've also considered going 35 Whelen, since I already shoot a 30-06 and resized brass is an option. The Whelen has a rather large case, but has been used for cast shooting often as well.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I've also considered going 35 Whelen, since I already shoot a 30-06 and resized brass is an option. The Whelen has a rather large case, but has been used for cast shooting often as well.


    The 358 Win. or 35 Whelen in a bolt action rifle offers so much more flexibility for you. I have owned both. For shooting cast bullets, in my opinion, the 358 Win. may have the edge.

    Ben
    Last edited by Ben; 05-19-2022 at 09:05 AM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben View Post
    I've also considered going 35 Whelen, since I already shoot a 30-06 and resized brass is an option. The Whelen has a rather large case, but has been used for cast shooting often as well.


    The 358 Win. or 35 Whelen in a bolt action rifle offers so much more flexibility for you. I have owned both. For shooting cast bullets, in my opinion, the 358 Win. may have the edge.

    Ben
    I've been talking with Mike Bellm "Mr Max" at 357maximum.net. He can re-bore for a 358 Win and suggested doing the same for my cast load. I've also had my eye on a CVA single-shot in 35 Whelen. It became popular again due to some interesting hunting regs I think around Louisiana, or something like that.

    Re-bore a 35 Magnum to 357 Maximum was another option Bellm suggested.

  6. #6
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    I am currently shooting the 38-200 RCBS clone at 1912 fps with 21g of 11FS with good accuracy. Went to the range Monday to test but it was closed due to an unspecified emergency. What could possibly be more important than my load development??? Will try again this weekend. Need to find more brass, Starline has been out of stock for 6 months now!
    Mal

    Mal Paso means Bad Pass, just so you know.

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Paso View Post
    I am currently shooting the 38-200 RCBS clone at 1912 fps with 21g of 11FS with good accuracy. Went to the range Monday to test but it was closed due to an unspecified emergency. What could possibly be more important than my load development??? Will try again this weekend. Need to find more brass, Starline has been out of stock for 6 months now!
    1912 fps using 350 Legend? Now, I like those numbers! No chamber issues seating that RCBS bullet? Do you resize to .356? Starline is my favorite brass as well.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Sized at .357", this is a gas checked bullet from a MP Hollowpoint mold. They feed well in my AR15. 16 inch barrel with a carbine length gas system.

    2.2" COL
    Last edited by Mal Paso; 05-19-2022 at 11:19 AM.
    Mal

    Mal Paso means Bad Pass, just so you know.

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
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    Mr. Mike Bellm "Mr Max" is getting me interested in re-chambering a single-shot Henry 357 to 35-30/30. That's peaking my interest now, but finding dies for that wildcat is tamping me back down. It would be an ideal match for cast loads though.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Im just under 2100fps,with the rcbs 200,and 4198 powder,very heavily compressed,,shooting this out of an ar,,with splendid accuracy.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master fastdadio's Avatar
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    Last edited by fastdadio; 05-20-2023 at 09:43 AM.
    Deplorable infidel

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    The thread noted by Fastdadio has good stuff. One point of note is that the 300L is going to be much less tricky in a break open than in a AR. For you use, I see no reason to not go with a Lee 200.

    I use WC 680 (Misurp version of 1680) and like it much better than H110 in my 357 Max AR. I did get to 2000 fps with this powder and a 200 gr bullet. The load shot great, but I backed down a little based on primer appearance. The extra available COAL in a single shot should get you to 2000 fps with a 200 pretty easy.

    Having said the above, the 360 Buck Hammer is probably a slightly better choice for many who choose to go single shot. A rimmed round will less tricky to load and is easier to pluck out.
    Last edited by P Flados; 05-19-2023 at 08:59 PM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master 44Blam's Avatar
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    Be careful of those W296/H110/AA11fs loads! They do need to fill 90% or better. I found out the secondary detonation thing is not a wives tale.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	350_Legend_Popped_Primers.jpg 
Views:	16 
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ID:	314187

    I like the Accurate 36-180 YG and Norma 200. My load is about 2025 fps and is very accurate.
    WWG1WGA

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altcaliber View Post
    So here we go...

    I would like to put together a 350 Legend cast load in a single shot rifle for shooting a 200 grain WFNGC cast bullet at 1800-2000 fps. I'm nick-naming this one the 35-350 Legend load to salute the 35 Remington. Why that combo? Because...

    • ...I like the history of the 35 Remington; especially with a cast 200 grain 35 caliber load traveling 1800-2000 fps.
    • ...I like the 200 grain WFNGC bullet and want to build a host rifle around it.
    • ...I cannot readily find a 35 Remington single-shot or bolt-action to host the 200 grain WFNGC bullet, but plenty of 350 Legend. Normally, 35 Remington is found in lever-actions, but my safari's are on a paper or steel target (not a hunter). Since I reload, normally don't prefer the firearms that sling empty cartridges on the shooting range floor. Revolvers, single-shots, and bolt-actions are just dandy. Prefer my lever-actions and semi-auto's at the range to be 22lr. (yea, it's crazy, but humor me)


    Anyway, there are bits and pieces of info for this type of 200 grain cast load already floating around the forums for 350 Legend, but I haven't seen somebody actually pull off reporting what the final results were. Did they get to the velocities similar to a 35 Remington? Did they run out of case capacity? Top out with too much pressure with the 350 Legend before getting that 200 grainer to something 35 Remmy-like?

    Planned on picking up a Henry or CVA single shot in 350 Legend as a 35 caliber host. Currently, have 5744 and RL-7 powders to start development with, and may have to go to a slightly faster burn rate if case capacity is an issue. Was then going to chrony the test results at the range.

    Before plunging in and finding I'm at a dead-end too quickly, does anyone have some feedback on what they have found with this heavier 200 grain in 350 Legend? Realistic to attempt this with good results?

    I've read up on the trials-n-tribulations of reloading the 350 Legend (SAAMI chamber dimensions, throat clearance issues, etc...). Was planning on sizing the 200 gr bullets to .356" when applying the gas-checks. Maybe would size to .357" if I didn't feel it would be bumping up against the tolerances. Seems even a tumble coating of Alox on the bullets, or a little spring-back from attempting a .357" resizing, might cause chambering issues if I'm already tight up against the maximum .357 specification for 350 Legend. Without an actual rifle in hand yet, most of this just speculation/worry/concern on my part.

    Mostly just reading these forums over the years to learn and apply to my reloading/casting. Look forward to friendly discussion and knowledge sharing.


    Steve
    Steve I'm going to tell you what I done and got. First my cast bullets are sized .357. You can size .358 as long as no full bearing surface extends past the case mouth. It will chamber them. The freebore is .357 for about a little less then an eight of an inch. Okay I'm shooting LEE 200 grain hollow point for the 35 Remington. Here's couple loads and I take no responsibility if you try that and I suggest you start a tad lower. One is N120 26 grains and velocity is 2039 fps. Another is Accurate 1680 at 28.5 grains for a velocity of 2022 fps. Now here are two loads shooting Mihec 217 grain hollow point for the 35 Rem. IMR 4198 27 grains for 1896 fps and AA 1680 23.5 for 1636 fps. Now that's where I loaded them at and that doesn't mean they won't go faster. I felt I didn't need faster then that. So you can see that equals the 35 Rem for the 200 grain and 217 grain and like I said I wasn't pushing it.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy Pereira's Avatar
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    Isn't that basically the 360 Buckhammer?

    RP


    Monte Walsh "You have No idea how little I care".

  16. #16
    Boolit Master fastdadio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44Blam View Post
    Be careful of those W296/H110/AA11fs loads! They do need to fill 90% or better. I found out the secondary detonation thing is not a wives tale.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	350_Legend_Popped_Primers.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	39.8 KB 
ID:	314187

    I like the Accurate 36-180 YG and Norma 200. My load is about 2025 fps and is very accurate.
    This was my experience with W296 also. Mid level Hodgdon data, with the Hornady FTX 165, in BCA AR 18" rifle. Scarry stuff. I gave up on 296 early because of it. I'm currently working up with IMR 4227 and like what I'm seeing.
    Deplorable infidel

  17. #17
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    Like many others, Im a 35 cal nut..

    I have the "legend" I prefer to call it what it is a 9x45.


    Im Sure you have read or herd about it. Remington is released the 360 Buck Hammer. Its a MUCH better option for what your wanting. A rimmed case is designed for the SS or lever. IINM Bellum has a 360 Reamer. A friend just got one back and I believe it was from him. Ill likely do the same but Id like a CVA. Im not in a rush so Im hoping CVA does it for me.

    Using a cast bullet I got over the stupidity of Winchesters .355 choice. I love the Maxi and spent more then a decade using it as my first choice for close deer hunting. I switched to the 300 BO cause I got a repeater but QUICKLY learned its limitations. As I literally had a 125g Sierra "SKID OFF" a shoulder. LUCKLY the deer was looking back and part of that slug intersected the on side carotid and he expired quickly but I never again dropped the hammer on a deer past 100-125y. The "legend" only has a bit more power but better diameter so I keep
    It inside 150y.
    I was always fine with 200y with the 35 Rem and a 200g RN. Conversely when I took the 357 Mag I stayed INSIDE 100 and 75 was better still.

    So my suggestion is the 360 Buck Hammer. Its advertised ballistics surpass the 35 Rem and Remington knows what 35 cal is.

    CW
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  18. #18
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    I think you all that are hung up on that for 35 caliber having to be .358 and I'm talking in the groove diameter not the bullet, need to look up saami bore and groove specifications for all the 35 calibers and that includes 9mm, 38 special, 357 magnum, 35 Remington, 35 Whelen, and all the rest of them and you will get a rude awakening. Don't forget they with have +/- tolerances in those bore and groove dimensions. If you measure ALL the 35 calibers on actual firearms over the decades you will learn something. With that said do you really believe that .002 to .003 inch difference in bullet diameter is really going to make that much difference. Measure a Colt Python barrel bore and groove and tell me what you get.

    What Remember saw was all the controversy Winchester got over it's 350 legend being called a 9mm. Winchester made the huge mistake of mentioning that the cases were made on the 5.56 line and bullets were made on the 9mm line. That got twisted up to be known that the 5.56 is the parent case of the 350 Legend and it is not. Winchester isn't stupid and they knew that an AR15 won't function correctly with straight wall cases and just necking up a 5.56 to 35 caliber leaves pretty much a straight wall case. So Winchester made the case with a much fatter head. Too many people on this forum went crazy trying for form 350 Legend cases out of 5.56 cases. What a headache. Back to what Remington saw. They saw all this happening to the Winchester in addition to some midwestern states hung up on 35 caliber HAS to be a .358 diameter bullet AFTER IT COMES OUT OF THE BARREL meaning it HAS to have a .358 groove. So Remington did that, not that it makes much different to the deer you shoot it with. Remington also saw that not ALL states allow you to hunt with a semi automatic rifle.

    The 350 Legend is a good round and with the proper bullet its better then a 150 yard cartridge.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy rickt300's Avatar
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    Just size your bullets to .356 and load up. My 350 Legend is an AR and I run the 220 Mihec HP in it with no issues and good accuracy. I too like I4227.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickt300 View Post
    Just size your bullets to .356 and load up. My 350 Legend is an AR and I run the 220 Mihec HP in it with no issues and good accuracy. I too like I4227.
    Like I said I load .357 with zero problems. As mentioned the chamber has a very short .357 freebore. So you can load your .357 bullet out, providing the magazines allows it, and the AR has enough butt to chamber with no problems. Now I'll tell you the fastest bullet that the chamber (at least my chamber) will allow you to chamber the cartridge is with a .359 bullet. Yes I've shot those too and of course none of the .359 diameter of the bullet protruded from the case mouth.

    I shoot the 217 grain Mihec bullet too. The 200 grain LEE's I swage to a better nose profile. Both shoot very accurately. I have some old 180 grain Remington roundnose jacketed and they shoot really good.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check