Redding's new policy - Make junk

[monadnock#5]

Some time ago, in another thread, I posted the opinion that buying a press was a crap shoot, as it is impossible for a manufacturer to make a press plumb, square and perpendicular to exact tolerances, at a price we would be willing to pay. Those that took me to task for that opinion used the Redding T-7 as a shining example of manufacturing art. "Superb" was the adjective used. Well, I'm glad you got what you paid for. Rick didn't, and has no recourse apparently, as in, "tough luck".

I had hoped that a Redding rep would come on Board, Viking Berserker style, a la Freedom Arms, and maybe explain some of their tolerance specs. In which case I was prepared to fold like a cheap suit. No such luck. If it goes out the door with the Co name on it, it has to be good.

Some years ago a coworker processed a batch of parts that were later found to be out of tolerance. While waiting for the axe to fall he asked a long timer what he might expect. His reply, "It's a funny thing, if they don't need the parts for a while you're in big trouble. If they needed the parts out the door yesterday, you've got nothing to worry about." As it turned out, he had nothing to worry about.

[flutedchamber]

Redding isn't the only company that puts out crap presses. I owned one of the early Hornady Pro-jectors that had one die station bored .015 off both in rotation and from centerline as compared to the other stations. Sending it back to Hornady got me nothing but the cost of shipping it to them and a letter stating that the press was "well within manufacturing tolerances."

You're right...they were highly in demand at the time and was shipped out to fill the demand.

[Geraldo]

I have a T-7 I've had no problems with, and I finally got notice that spare turrets were in stock (I'm still amazed Rick found at least eight of them). So I'll get to see soon enough if there is any difference between it and my other turret.

[Harpman]

found this thread and got to checking my lyman turret press , sure thing out of alignment a tad....Have any of you found a press thats perfectly aligned ?....seems to me the bullet seating station for competition shooting needs to be perfect alignment.

[flutedchamber]

My Forster Co-ax is dead on, as is my older RCBS Rockchucker.

[cbrick]

found this thread and got to checking my lyman turret press , sure thing out of alignment a tad.... Have any of you found a press thats perfectly aligned ?.... seems to me the bullet seating station for competition shooting needs to be perfect alignment.

Absolutely, the only two presses that I've ever worked with that weren't properly aligned were these two Redding T-7's.

Yes but not only the seating station, for concentric (spelled accurate) ammo every station "MUST" be aligned. If the press ram doesn't need to align with the die why bother spending $200.00 on a 3 die set of Redding Competition dies? NOTHING is aligned anyway! What good is a competition seating die going to do in a cartridge case that is bent on an angle? What possible good could the Redding Competition Bushing Neck Sizing Die ($88.00 plus shipping at Midway) be if all you’re going to do is push the case off center to one side? If the press is just a few thousands off center you can kiss the money you spent on that match chamber goodbye. Off any more than that and it wouldn't even make decent plinking ammo and both of these T-7’s are off by more than that.

According to Redding that's all just fine and if you don't like it don't tell them, all they have to say about it is buy RCBS if you don’t like it. That's what you get for paying the highest prices in the industry!

Rick

[cbrick]

I have a T-7 I've had no problems with, and I finally got notice that spare turrets were in stock (I'm still amazed Rick found at least eight of them). So I'll get to see soon enough if there is any difference between it and my other turret.

Geraldo, Two of the die plates came with the two presses of coarse, when I bought the first press the store had two additional plates and I bought them giving me three. A week later they got more in stock and I bought one more, hadn't used the press yet but this gave me four. When I discovered the alignment problem I returned the press and the additional three plates and the store swapped another new press and three plates. There was no difference in the alignment between either press and any of the plates. The first press and the first three plates went back to Redding and they said "one" of the plates was off center.

I have examined and swapped enough plates, dies and cartridge cases to believe the plates are not the problem. The rear of the T-7 has a hole bored to hold a spring loaded detent ball that a detent in the plate corresponds to; this is what aligns the plate and thus the die with the ram. Even though Redding said the die holes were off center on one plate I think the problem is a bad run of presses that have the detent ball improperly located and thus every plate used on that press will not align the die and the ram. Redding says this is not a possibility. It's not? Why not? Much better for Redding to slander me by calling me a liar and an idiot than to admit the possibility of an error on Redding's part.

Anyway, when you get your new plate(s) I’d like to hear if it works out correctly.

Rick

[Geraldo]

Rick,

I just got my spare plate yesterday, but haven't loaded any ammo on it yet.

That's a great explanation in your last post. My theory was a bad run of turrets, but a bad run of presses/detent holes would be another explanation. I'm also wondering if it has nothing to do with any of that, but with the ram/turret being out of square with each other.

When I get a chance to load on it I'll post back.

[ELFEGO BACA]

I purchased a used Redding T-7 over a year ago and have been using it to load 45/70 black powder cartridge rounds - it works fine

I recently purchased another used Redding T-7. It is still sitting on my lazy boy. I need to find room on my bench

I have a Dillon 550B that I purchased new in 86. A few years ago I bought a used reconditioned Dillon Square Deal. I was having problems with the priming system. I sent it to Dillon for repairs and now it works fine

Of course my Rockchucker was purchased in the 70s - no problems.

[cbrick]

Some time ago, in another thread, I posted the opinion that buying a press was a crap shoot, as it is impossible for a manufacturer to make a press plumb, square and perpendicular to exact tolerances, at a price we would be willing to pay. Those that took me to task for that opinion used the Redding T-7 as a shining example of manufacturing art. "Superb" was the adjective used. Well, I'm glad you got what you paid for. Rick didn't, and has no recourse apparently, as in, "tough luck".

I've been asking around to see if others are using the T-7 and their experience with it. So far I've found two but they are both at least 1 1/2 - 2 years old and they say no problems at all. I haven't found anyone that has recently purchased one.

I still think it is a case of a bad run of presses. Such things can happen, well, not with Redding, according to Redding that is not a possibility with Redding products. The biggest problem isn't that IT DID HAPPEN but Redding's total and complete lack of customer service and then as proof that the most expensive reloading products on the market are fine . . . they slander me.

Rick

[shdwlkr]

Rick
I have several Redding products because they where located close to where I used to live and have bought some through the mail over the years and have never had an issue with the quality.
Now from all you have said something is wrong somewhere and I wished I could light a fire at the company and get to the bottom of the issue. They will most likely just write you off as a disgruntled customer and be done with it unless they get thousands of complaints then they will look into the matter and may or may not notify all who bought such and such item(s)
it is done all the time anymore. One or even sometimes a hundred complaints don't mean a thing it has to be thousands and doesn't hurt to have a few lawyers talking to there lawyers to get the water to boil so to speak.
Me if I made reloading stuff I would be on a few sites to see how my stuff was being viewed by the public but that is just me because I am a pain in the butt when it comes to keeping people happy. Yes I was that way when I worked on construction also the people who's homes we went by had every right to us being kind and understanding.

Now I guess I had better find a new source since Redding seems to have fallen into the trap that who gives crap quality mode. Sad when a good company is more interested in profits then taking care of business. Well we can hope that the recession will help them out of business so that we don't have to wonder about them anymore. This might be a good thing yet.

[shdwlkr]

Cbrick
didn't know until this that your website was http://www.lasc.us but glad to have found out.
I enjoy it alot and get some good info too.
never needed to know but I do know that I can pm you anytime by just going to your info beside your posts really had but then I only have a Master's degree from a college and those folks at Redding might only have a bachelor's degree. They do say education is a great thing if you don't waste it.

[omgb]

I have a T7. I bought it back in 2003 or so. Works fine. I've got many and I mean more than 4 Hornady presses (4 366s, 2 155s, and 2 L-N-Ls with case feeders and and old Projector) Service has been outstanding on all. I have an RCBS Rockchucker from my early days of relaoding (1975) still works great, no problems. I have two Dillon 550Bs again, no problems and I have lots of old Lyman gear and again, no problems. RCBS has been rel good about parts. They drew the limit though at helping me fix my Green Machine. They suggested I buy a better press. I did, the L-N-Ls. I don't know what to think about the Redding issue. I somehow can't believe either party is 100% correct.

[flutedchamber]

I have a T7. I bought it back in 2003 or so. Works fine. I've got many and I mean more than 4 Hornady presses (4 366s, 2 155s, and 2 L-N-Ls with case feeders and and old Projector) Service has been outstanding on all. I have an RCBS Rockchucker from my early days of relaoding (1975) still works great, no problems. I have two Dillon 550Bs again, no problems and I have lots of old Lyman gear and again, no problems. RCBS has been rel good about parts. They drew the limit though at helping me fix my Green Machine. They suggested I buy a better press. I did, the L-N-Ls. I don't know what to think about the Redding issue. I somehow can't believe either party is 100% correct.

I think the point is that companies (and Redding is not alone in this mess) are beginning to or have been selling goods on their PAST good name/reputation, IE products made more recently have been found to be of a lesser quality than older products. But, at least in at least my experience that statement isn't 100% accurate.

Case in point. I bought a Hornady Pro-jector when it first came out. After setting the press up I noticed that the cases were showing a slight banana shape on one side, something that would occur if the case and the die weren't concentric. After measuring all of the stations I discovered that one station was off both in relationship from the center of the press (the diameter that the die station holes create on their centerline) and in the center to center measurement from one die station to the next. I don't recall at this time the exact amount but it was in excess of .010

I called Hornady and got a return authorization. Sent the press back on my dime with a letter of explanation and waited. About a month or five weeks later my press comes back with a letter enclosed that stated that "the press is well within manufacturing tolerances." One station off by more than .010 is within manufacturing tolerances?

I noticed that you bought a Pro-jector and apparently had no trouble with it. See the difference? Needless to say it's not because Hornady made a bad press that I have never bought another product from them, it's because they made a bad press and didn't correct a problem that they knew existed.

Why didn't RCBS stand behind their Green Machine...a product that they claimed would revolutionize reloading? That wasn't a cheap press, but I guess they didn't care...they already had your money.

[omgb]

RCBS tried to support the Green Machine for many years. However, the design had flaws that were just too difficult to over come. The priming station in point was prone to misfeed. Adjustment was tricky and the factory was loosing its shirt on an admittedly flawed design. The machine was designed to be set up and dialed in and then never changed. I think they had police and competative teams in mind at design time. IIRC, it came on the market atabout the same time PPC shooting was getting hot. When guys bought it and tried to swap dies, change calibers etc the whole thing became a nightmare. So, they dropped it and came up with their own turret design after studying Lee, Hornady, and Star. Dillon is a rehash of the Star machine on several levels. Not a put down, just an observation. At any rate, I don't hold RCBS too accountable for not supporting the machine after it's 10th year out of production. Just my $.02

[golddigger]

I would like to offer something. I have only RCBS on my bench. Why youmight ask.

Well the skinny of it is that I have stuff that was my dads when he was in law enforcement and was handed down to me. Some of this is old stuff but do you know that it still carries the same warenty now as when it was bought in ths 60's.

I have called even when it was my own stupid fault and they still replace or repair at no cost to me. That is also with no proof that i even bought it. That being said
I think maybe more people should buy RCBS.

If you look at lee they only carry a 2 year warrenty. Never owned lee but they do make quality stuff. Dont get me wrong but if you make a quality product why not stand behind it for life. I will always have green on my bench.

[flutedchamber]

OMGB,

It is unfortunate that RCBS didn't take a few more weeks or months to test the Green Machine rather than put something out on the market that they KNEW was faulty. RCBS is an excellent company that does stand behind it's products MOST of the time. Do you still have the Green Machine?

As golddigger wrote, RCBS doesn't even ask for a part to be returned, call and they replace the faulty or broken part. My ONLY beef with RCBS, and until that day my bench was ALL green, was with one RCBS carbide die in 45acp. I used it for a few rounds, less than two hundred and the insert fell out. OK, it didn't fall out, it withdrew itself on the case that was being resized. I called RCBS and told them what happened and was told to send the die back for replacement. The die was sent back to RCBS with the case still in it (it was a Remington case, not military) and a note asking for a replacement. Two weeks later the die came back with the case removed from the insert and a letter stating that I abused the die. Except for a fingerprint on the knurling from a sweaty thumb there wasn't a mark on the die. How could this be abuse?? Please bear in mind that this was when a carbide die set sold for more than $50 plus shipping. I needed the die to finish a large run of 45acp and ended up buying of all things a Lee carbide set locally for $19. Now granted the cost of the Lee dies was high but I needed the dies NOW.

Those Lee dies are now over 30 years old. The insert is still intact and not worn "egg shaped" like I was told by people who didn't like Lee products. I own 4 RCBS presses and one tumbler. However, since that day I received my "abused" die back from RCBS I have never bought another RCBS die of any type. I don't think my lack of buying RCBS products will seriously affect their bottom line, I am positive it will never add to it again.

[omgb]

I off-loaded that GM years ago. It was fun to look at and when it worked it was cool to use but sheesh, what a headache when it was out of sorts.....and that was frequently. I bought a Lee Progressive 1000 way back in 1987 or 88. Talk about a ***....man that was a stinker. it jammed, mis-fed primers, got out of time and basically was a PITA to use. I ditched that back in 91 and never looked back. To be fair, I have two Lee priming tools and love them. I like most of their dies too but the Dillon universal decapper is a whole lot stronger than any of the Lee decappers including the one you use a hammer with. I know this for sure after decapping more than 4,000 of Korean surplus 06.

[flutedchamber]

Out of curiosity, what did the Green Machine go for new?

[omgb]

It was over $375 IIRC. That was a lot of money in those days. It may even have been more. I know I got $200 for it when I sold it. BTW, my Projector is a boat anchor. I bought it for parts only. the priming system is trash but the holes line up with the base plate OK