Lee PrecisionWidenersTitan ReloadingLoad Data
MidSouth Shooters SupplyReloading EverythingRepackboxRotoMetals2
Inline Fabrication
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: Loading gate mod?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Cordele, GA
    Posts
    470

    Loading window mod?

    So, I got my new Winchester/miroku 1892 SRC, and it is gorgeous. However, it has a slight issue for my purposes. When I thumb a round in the loading gate, it holds the gate open until I poke my little finger in there and push the cartridge just a hair further. This lets the gate close and the gun can start feeding from the tube.

    Some of you are already thinking, "what difference does it make? You ain't fightin' injuns." Well, the reason it's an issue for me is that I'm one of those nutjobs that likes to shoot tactical matches with ww2 bolt actions and cowboy guns. So, I would really like to be able to just thumb a round in there and run the lever.

    So, I looked for solutions, and I noticed something about original '92 Loading gates that is different from my modern one. They have a shallow, rounded cutout at the front of the loading window, as pictured below. Some are more pronounced than others, but it seems to be common on originals. I think the Rossis had it as well. It seems like its purpose is to mitigate the type of problem I'm having.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20220428_210459_1652139066341.jpg 
Views:	54 
Size:	151.5 KB 
ID:	300113

    Before I go messing up the beautiful bluing on the gun, I would like to hear from people who have guns with this cutout. Will it solve my issue?
    Last edited by Thundermaker; 05-12-2022 at 11:25 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    2,515
    I didn't realize that was a purposeful modification, always thought it was a wear area from frequent loading.
    I'm interested to hear more qualified thoughts.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    2,377
    Was fooling around with a slightly bubba'd marlin 336 and it has a machined bevel on the receiver that allows it to feed into the magazine tube. By fooling around,was stoning all the burrs left by the machining process. Especially at the back of the receiver where the bolt goes in. That and the loading port. Frank

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Cordele, GA
    Posts
    470
    Quote Originally Posted by cwtebay View Post
    I didn't realize that was a purposeful modification, always thought it was a wear area from frequent loading.
    I'm interested to hear more qualified thoughts.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
    It may be, but that would have to be some butter soft steel for brass to wear on it like that.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy

    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Eastern North Dakota
    Posts
    465
    Steve's Guns offers lightened springs and an excellent CD on making the 1892 run. GW

  6. #6
    Moderator Emeritus


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SW Montana
    Posts
    12,450
    Push the last cartridge in with another cartridge and keep shooting.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,702
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundermaker View Post
    So, I got my new Winchester/miroku 1892 SRC, and it is gorgeous. However, it has a slight issue for my purposes. When I thumb a round in the loading gate, it holds the gate open until I poke my little finger in there and push the cartridge just a hair further. This lets the gate close and the gun can start feeding from the tube.

    Some of you are already thinking, "what difference does it make? You ain't fightin' injuns." Well, the reason it's an issue for me is that I'm one of those nutjobs that likes to shoot tactical matches with ww2 bolt actions and cowboy guns. So, I would really like to be able to just thumb a round in there and run the lever.

    So, I looked for solutions, and I noticed something about original '92 Loading gates that is different from my modern one. They have a shallow, rounded cutout at the front of the loading window, as pictured below. Some are more pronounced than others, but it seems to be common on originals. I think the Rossis had it as well. It seems like its purpose is to mitigate the type of problem I'm having.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20220428_210459_1652139066341.jpg 
Views:	54 
Size:	151.5 KB 
ID:	300113

    Before I go messing up the beautiful bluing on the gun, I would like to hear from people who have guns with this cutout. Will it solve my issue?
    you still gonna need to make sure to push the last round in till it clears the gate and the gate pops closed - gun will not feed ifn ya dont

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Cordele, GA
    Posts
    470
    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    you still gonna need to make sure to push the last round in till it clears the gate and the gate pops closed - gun will not feed ifn ya dont
    Yeah, that's the problem. There's not enough clearance for me to push it that far. I have to poke my little finger underneath the edge of the window to push the cartridge far enough for the gate to close.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    NW MO
    Posts
    620
    Do NOT tinker or grind with the loading gate on your rifle. It is one of the components that controls the timing of the action. Modifications can lead to all sorts of difficult and painful jams. Not nice.

    If you want to push rounds in there faster without jeopardizing your fingers - use the nose of the next round. Ballpoint pen caps and wooden dowels work fine too.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Cordele, GA
    Posts
    470
    Quote Originally Posted by truckjohn View Post
    Do NOT tinker or grind with the loading gate on your rifle. It is one of the components that controls the timing of the action. Modifications can lead to all sorts of difficult and painful jams. Not nice.

    If you want to push rounds in there faster without jeopardizing your fingers - use the nose of the next round. Ballpoint pen caps and wooden dowels work fine too.
    Boy, I hate when people don't read the whole post. I'm not talking about grinding the gate. I'm talking about relieving the front of the window in the receiver like the original in the picture.

    "Jeopardizing my finger" is not the issue. The issue is loading time.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Baltimoreed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    1,569
    Get a replacement gate to tinker [maybe shorten] with. I wouldn’t go messing with the recvr. 1892s can be difficult. Work on the cheapest part first. Something an old gunsmith taught me.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    2,916
    What Mt Gianni said !

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy Sam Sackett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    Shippensburg, PA
    Posts
    366
    GW gave good advice. The stock magazine spring may have too much tension, especially when the last round is being pushed in. There are many blurbs posted on the internet on slicking up a 92.

    I would check the length of the mag tube spring. If there are more than say 5” hanging out the end of the tube when the cap is removed, it’s too long. If you don’t want to hack up the original, get a replacement and work with that. Worst that can happen that way is you spend a few bucks and you put the original spring back in.

    Just my thoughts. BTW. I run a slicked up Rossi 92 for cowboy action. Solid gun.
    Sam Sackett

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,570
    I always chalked it up to, some guns are like that. that's just the way they are. load em an shoot em anyway.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Cordele, GA
    Posts
    470
    Well, I asked a question and got t a bunch of conflicting answers, so I'm going to figure it out and let you guys know how it goes.
    Last edited by Thundermaker; 05-12-2022 at 05:02 PM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,702
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundermaker View Post
    Boy, I hate when people don't read the whole post. I'm not talking about grinding the gate. I'm talking about relieving the front of the window in the receiver like the original in the picture.

    "Jeopardizing my finger" is not the issue. The issue is loading time.
    do you have that original to copy?
    I converted a 25/20 to 38/40 and the grinding you are talking about was one of the things I HAD TO DO to get it working correctly - I used the little drum sanding attachment that comes with cheap Dremel tool copies - made a long extension shaft to hold it and used it on an electric drill at slow to moderate speed - cant use an extension on a dremel they spin way too fast and will self destruct from getting out of balance (ask me how I know this ) If you gonna do this I would suggest stripping both actions right down - take a little smidge - reassemble and test - rinse and repeat

    All that said it feeds ok until the last round? my conversion would not accept a round through the gate when I started
    hasten slowly!!! some of the internal dimensions (most really) of a 92 are dead critical.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Cordele, GA
    Posts
    470
    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    do you have that original to copy?
    I converted a 25/20 to 38/40 and the grinding you are talking about was one of the things I HAD TO DO to get it working correctly - I used the little drum sanding attachment that comes with cheap Dremel tool copies - made a long extension shaft to hold it and used it on an electric drill at slow to moderate speed - cant use an extension on a dremel they spin way too fast and will self destruct from getting out of balance (ask me how I know this ) If you gonna do this I would suggest stripping both actions right down - take a little smidge - reassemble and test - rinse and repeat

    All that said it feeds ok until the last round? my conversion would not accept a round through the gate when I started
    hasten slowly!!! some of the internal dimensions (most really) of a 92 are dead critical.
    That's not my original in the picture.

    Let me see if I can explain what's happening a little more clearly. My gun feeds just fine. That's not the issue. At no point does loading a round into the magazine require excessive force. I believe I mentioned that I was pushing rounds in with my little finger.

    My issue is as follows:

    When I push a round into the gate with my thumb, my thumb, not the round, is stopped by the front edge of the receiver window. At that point, the rim of the round is sitting on a lip at the end of the gate (the part that covers the receiver window) and is slightly past the edge of the receiver window. I then have use my little finger (my "pinky", if you will) to push the round just a hair (literally. It's less than a millimeter) further, underneath the edge of the window. This allows the gate to snap shut, and a round can be cycled into the chamber.

    My proposed solution is to take a shallow, semi-circular cut out of the front edge of the receiver window like the one on the original in the picture. In theory, this will allow me to push the round that extra hair further forward with my thumb, in one motion, as I load the round, as opposed to loading the round into the gate and having to poke it.

    That guy talking about the marlin 336 with the stiff gate is a different person, talking about a different issue, with a different gun.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,702
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundermaker View Post
    That's not my original in the picture.

    Let me see if I can explain what's happening a little more clearly. My gun feeds just fine. That's not the issue. At no point does loading a round into the magazine require excessive force. I believe I mentioned that I was pushing rounds in with my little finger.

    My issue is as follows:

    When I push a round into the gate with my thumb, my thumb, not the round, is stopped by the front edge of the receiver window. At that point, the rim of the round is sitting on a lip at the end of the gate (the part that covers the receiver window) and is slightly past the edge of the receiver window. I then have use my little finger (my "pinky", if you will) to push the round just a hair (literally. It's less than a millimeter) further, underneath the edge of the window. This allows the gate to snap shut, and a round can be cycled into the chamber.

    My proposed solution is to take a shallow, semi-circular cut out of the front edge of the receiver window like the one on the original in the picture. In theory, this will allow me to push the round that extra hair further forward with my thumb, in one motion, as I load the round, as opposed to loading the round into the gate and having to poke it.

    That guy talking about the marlin 336 with the stiff gate is a different person, talking about a different issue, with a different gun.
    ok I got ya (finally )
    My original looks exactly like the picture you posted
    my thumb is a blunt roundnose version and some calloused from the work I do
    test loaded it just now - your plan dont work for me with that gun - takes a push with a finger to load the last round home . I have been poking rounds into 92's for so long its become muscle memory, had to actually go through the process in order to realise what I do and yeah my thumb hangs on the frame at the end - I didnt have to think about what to do - it was automatic.
    So I proly say leave it alone - make yourself ten dummy rounds and practice on the back porch till you dont have to think about it anymore .

    And FWIW I have done this in a hurry a lot! our club runs a rapid fire event - timed over a minute - starts with empty gun and ammo on a blanket - they blow the whistle and we load and fire as many rounds as can get in the one minute time (blackpowder only) Been beat once or twice but I have pretty much owned that event since we started it in the mid 1990's - score zone is about the size of the black on a pistol target - shot at 25 yards - usually get 16 or 17 away - a couple in the white most times (first shot of the string) so we load twice in that minute - first time full - second time half or 3/4 charge it - I shoot a bog standard Uberti 66 rifle - - its a real fun deal and get a dozen guys going at it with blackpowder - looks pretty impressive.

    Interesting ps - thumb loads that 66 just fine - (one more reason the race boys like toggle guns I guess)
    Last edited by indian joe; 05-13-2022 at 01:12 AM.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    NW MO
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundermaker View Post
    Boy, I hate when people don't read the whole post. I'm not talking about grinding the gate. I'm talking about relieving the front of the window in the receiver like the original in the picture.

    "Jeopardizing my finger" is not the issue. The issue is loading time.
    And you're not reading either. Don't monkey with it. Don't grind notches in your receiver. Don't monkey with the loading gate. That's how you end up with a jam-o-matic.

    Lever action enthusiast forums are slam full of folks whining about how their guns don't run worth a lick, jams and all sorts of trouble, and when you finally get the truth out of them... "Well, I tried to slick it up."

    The '94 action has been in production for over a hundred years, including a bunch of improvements and changes. Every shooter has run into the issue of poking the rim in through the gate. It's been with us forever. If it was an easy and reliable fix, it would already have been done.

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    5,252
    .

    Thundermaker:

    FWIW, I've successfully resolved your issue on dozens of leverguns over the past 50-odd years with a slight honing of the inside of the forward inside end of the loading port and the forward edge of the loading gate with a round India stone to knock off any sharp edges/burrs; then did the same with a flat India stone to the inside beveled surface of the loading gate.

    The loading gate has nothing to do with cartridge feed timing, and the stoning only removes virtually microscopic bits of metal.

    The work is best accomplished via removing the loading gate from the action, which does require some disassembly.

    If anyone's not up to the disassembly required, they may better off handing the job over to a real gunsmith (not some AR parts-changer)

    .
    Now I lay me down to sleep
    A gun beside me is what I keep
    If I awake, and you're inside
    The coroner's van is your next ride

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check