9mm

[45DUDE]

What is the best bench target load for a 9mm 1911 1 in 16'' twist Colt barrel with a 121 grain LEAD bullet? Is there a better lead boolit for target shooting? And what powder? I have plenty of books--Trying to save some time and do it right the first time. A 124 grain plated does plenty good. Some one that has done it hands on with LEAD please. Looking for something that will group 2'' or better at 25 yards. I have Power Pistol-Unique-Bullseye-231-HP38-VN320-340-350-Titegroup-American Select & a couple of others. I have some 38 special target guns I use with LEAD but 9mm seems very picky. THANKS in advance.

[Kosh75287]

I kinda think that 9mm pistols have been fielded by so many countries in so many trims, to answer so many military personal defense conditions, over the last 11 decades, that standardization may be next to impossible. Barrel land/groove diameters may vary widely, as may rifling twists to stabilize the 147 gr. projectiles used by hostage rescue units much better than the 115 gr. FMJFP ball used by their
standing army. The "9.00 Pistol 80" fielded by Finland (a DA/SA adapted P-35 with enlarged trigger guard, to accommodate fat trigger fingers with thick arctic gloves on them) is likely built to different specs than the South African P-88, a license-built DA/SA Beretta M92, with a shrouded slide (to keep out dust and dirt?). The Glock 17 used by the UK will likely respond better to specific ammo than the Japanese SDFA's S&W M&P, in which the barrel lengths and capacities may vary from 2.75" to 5" and 6 to 17 rounds, respectively.

Two "Bench Target Loads" for 1:16" stabilized 120 - 130 gr. bullets which come to mind are:
1.) 5.2/Power Pistol/124 gr. HAP(?) which, I believe, is used by Wilson arms to test-fire all 9mms before leaving the shop. The ballistics appear to be quite uniform, if somewhat modest (125 gr. @ 1075 f/s), and the formulation seems to shoot tightly from brass having all the same headstamp.
2.) MY current "test load" for 9mm consists of 5.6/Unique/125 gr. PC-TC, which gives 1139 + 17 f/s from my P-35. It is warmer than the "Wilson load" (about 3.5% under max), seems to print nicely through every 9mm pistol through which I've run it, and has never failed to make "Minimum" for IDPA or Bianchi Cup style matches, when brass headstamps are kept the same.
These two loads have given ME exceptional accuracy in 9mm pistols, but YMMV. As always, start at 10% under max, and work upward in 0.1 gr. increments.

[Bigslug]

While my experience is by no means extensive, I've had good luck with NOE's Ranch Dog / Accurate Molds 35-135D. In Winchester brass, 3.5 -3.7 grains of Bullseye will run it at just below to just above 1000fps with standard deviations of about 10fps. Out of my red-dotted Ruger carbine it will stay inside of 3.5" at 75 yards.

It falls out of my NOE mold at .357" and that's how I'd spec the Accurate version if ordering from them. Tumble lubed with White Label 45/45/10, it seems to do the trick.

[Larry Gibson]

4 gr of Bullseye has served me well with any lead/cast bullet of 115 - 124 gr in multiple 9mm's since the late sixties.

[Dusty Bannister]

I think that after you have read post #2 and post #4 you should also read the following thread. As you know there are so many variables to deal with and this will at least help keep you between the lines as you work through issues you have not ever considered.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...s-in-a-new-9mm

[243winxb]

Pick a fine powder that gives accurate drops from the measure. Example- Bullseye/yes, Unique/NO.

My Taurus G3C is not accurate enought to tell the difference in accuracy. Shot HS-6, Bullseye, Unique, & 700X.

HS-6 measures well. Shooting Lee lead. Speer online has data.



https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...er.317/&page=2

[45DUDE]

I think that after you have read post #2 and post #4 you should also read the following thread. As you know there are so many variables to deal with and this will at least help keep you between the lines as you work through issues you have not ever considered.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...s-in-a-new-9mm

Thanks--That post was 10 years old but nothing has changed other than maybe some new powders I don't have anyway. I can size .355-360 and my Dillon meters any powder about perfect. I am not having a 9mm problem because I haven't started yet. I shot my super 38 yesterday with some lead. The 150 grain went sideways and the 121 grain fair but low and right. I thought I might ask before I tried Lead in the 1911 9mm. Mr. Gibson got right to the point so 4gr be with a 121 is what I will try today. I don't wont to buy boolits I can cast. Post #2 suggested Power Pistol so I will try that also. I have plenty copper 124's that shoot good and I am not against buying a mold around 124 grains.

[Larry Gibson]

45DUDE

Except for specific test loads all my 9mm is also loaded on a Dillon and has been for 30+ years. I've had no problems with it metering Bullseye.

[45DUDE]

Well-It didn't work and I think I may have a weird gun problem. I made up 50 rounds of Lyman's 356402 121 grain boolit with 4 grains of Bullseye and by the lyman book they measure perfect other than I seated them .010 deeper. They were sized to .358 because I had been using them in 38 special and they fit my chamber. I put up a fresh target at 25 yards and benched with a good rest and 10 shots were all over the place about 12'' or so. I then took the Gun and fired 10 more shots with a load of 4.7 N340 with a 124 grain Extreme bullet at another target and it hit middle and an ok group. I cut a 2 3/4'' orange square and put in the middle of a sheet of computer paper and gave it another try. This time I hit the orange with 9 shots and one about 1/4'' low left. This was 4.7 of N340 and a tennis ball group. This is a $400 1911 Citadel with a trigger job <not a target gun> The target board was new and I pulled my targets. The group with the 10 -121 grain lead boolits was a big perfect "S" like Superman larger than the paper and some were perfect sideways and I could see the lube grooves on the paper. The group on my second target had 5 in a line across and 5 coming back and looked like a V. The third 10 shot tennis ball size target had the same V shaped group in line only pointed up. My shooting buddy has two 9mm Dan Wesson's and we are going to see what my loads do in his guns NEXT WEEK. The 4 grains of Bullseye had more recoil than the 4.7 of N340 but all the brass fell in an 8 foot circle. If anyone has a thought? Maybe the gun needs a one size shorter barrel link? It's factory but feels really tight for a cheap gun.. Even with the .358 boolits there were no signs of leading. Maybe 243winxb could loan me some boolits to try.

[Green Frog]

I’m kinda surprised this thread has gone this long without mentioning W231/HP38. My go-to load for 9mm is swaged lead RN 125 gr bullets over 4.2 gr of HP38. The brand of brass seems to make no difference for casual range use. FWIW, my pistol is a custom S&W Model 639 and pretty indiscriminate what it eats.

Froggie

[gwpercle]

The 9mm with lead boolits is a Stinker ... it tried my soul and almost beat me .
After 50 years of csting and loading the 9mm Luger is the only one that made me say cuss words at it and almost give up but a 124 gr. TC mould from NOE saved the day NOE 358-124-TC GC ...yes , gas check ... the gas check on this one made the difference .
NOE 358-124-TC GC (sized .357" , gas check installed)
Note you can use the following loads with the lighter plain base Lee 356-120-TC boolit sized .357"

5.2 grs. Unique @ 1166 fps
5.5 grs. AA#5 @ 1081 fps
3.8 grs. Titegroup @ 1103 fps
5.0 grs. W231 @ 1125 fps
5.0 grs. HP-38 @ 1125 fps
4.1 grs. 700X @ 1122 fps
4.2 grs Red Dot @ 1083 fps

A load that my Walther P38 (1944 era) likes is the Lee 358-105-SWC , sized .357" over
4.7 grs. Unique , this load is heavy enough to reliably cycle the P38's action but no heavier ...
It's my target load and shoots to the P38's fixed sights ... 1 1/2 15 shot groups at 25 yards from a rest .
Good luck with the little German stinker .. I'll take 38 special & 45 acp over it any day !!!
Gary

[45DUDE]

Thanks gwpercle and green frog. I am going to see if these shoot in a different gun over the weekend. I am leaning on a gun problem because the Colt super 38 barrel in this gun does exactly the same thing. Will report the findings.

[Huskerguy]

Not exactly a response to your questions but here goes anyway. I love CZ's, all my 9's are CZ's. I was working up loads for my new at the time 10-C and could not get a decent group using all sorts of different bullets and the seating depths manufacturers recommended. I slugged the barrel with each different shape and style of bullet, still nothing worked. I know CZ has a reputation for a short throat so I was conscience of that. I shoot at in indoor range and at 50' I knocked the center out of paper from a rest with Winchester White box. Their OAL was way longer so I said what the heck, I loaded up some bullets to the same OAL with W231 and walla, it was dead on. I wasn't at the high end of the powder load either, it just worked. So, the bullet wasn't my problem. YMMV

[FrankJD]

I’m kinda surprised this thread has gone this long without mentioning W231/HP38. My go-to load for 9mm is swaged lead RN 125 gr bullets over 4.2 gr of HP38. The brand of brass seems to make no difference for casual range use. FWIW, my pistol is a custom S&W Model 639 and pretty indiscriminate what it eats.

Froggie

Same here, 4.2gr of w231 for 9mm.

[45DUDE]

[QUOTE=Huskerguy; I shoot at in indoor range and at 50' I knocked the center out of paper from a rest with Winchester White box. Their OAL was way longer so I said what the heck, I loaded up some bullets to the same OAL with W231 and walla, it was dead on. I wasn't at the high end of the powder load either, it just worked. So, the bullet wasn't my problem. YMMV[/QUOTE] Something to do- thanks .xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I haven't checked to see how far the bullet will go out in the factory barrel but I did in a dummy barrel.

[Drew P]

4gr red dot sends them well in all my guns

[fredj338]

IMO, no such thing as an accuracy load. Some will be better than others but all guns are diff. All bullets are diff to. With cast bullets, if it wont shoot over Unique, probably wont shoot. I have BHP that would not shoot worth a crap using 124gr over W231. Switching to Unique, got me into the 2" range @ 25y.
No imo you dont need a gc. My Springfield loaded is more accurate than I can shoot, but 2" 25y groups off a bench are not hard to do with 124-147gr cast medium hard, good lube or coated & sized to 0.357".

[wv109323]

My load developement for a CZ 75B Omega has also been problematic. My pistol has a 1:10 twist with a short chamber. The pistol will not shoot well with any bullet when velocities reach 1000 fps.
The powders I found best were 6.5 g ofAA No.7 ,Titegroup and Blue Dot. The bullet I use is the Lee 120 TC which I powder coat and size to .3570.
Bullet needs to be at least .357.

[sigep1764]

My load developement for a CZ 75B Omega has also been problematic. My pistol has a 1:10 twist with a short chamber. The pistol will not shoot well with any bullet when velocities reach 1000 fps.
The powders I found best were 6.5 g ofAA No.7 ,Titegroup and Blue Dot. The bullet I use is the Lee 120 TC which I powder coat and size to .3570.
Bullet needs to be at least .357.

My 75 Omega also has a short leade. I got around this with two boolit designs. The Accurate 358-120B, a truncated cone boolit that was seated to the edge of the cone. The other is my favorite and the only boolit I cast for 9mm now. Its the NOE 358-155 Elco boolit that is cast as a hollow point. It has a stepped nose and is in my opinion the only boolit for 9mm.

[45DUDE]

Haven't been back to the range yet and my shooting buddy with the Dan Wesson's we were going to test the ammo with bought a boat. Thanks for the input. I have a model 19-3 S&W with the same 1 in 16 twist as the 1911 that shoot these lead 121's good. Maybe this weekend.