RepackboxLee PrecisionTitan ReloadingInline Fabrication
ADvertise hereRotoMetals2

Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: need new crimp grove on cast bullet

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    7

    need new crimp grove on cast bullet

    Is there any tool to put a crimp grove on a hard cast bullet? The cast bullets I have/buy where the crimp groove is, are too high, and I have to seat bullet deeper in case, like 1.60in, I want to seat bullets at 1.75in to 1.76in, that my cylinder on my 45 colt blackhawk will take.
    I would like to cut the groove, so as to not distort bullet. Don't want bullet setout to happen under recoil. 340g@ 1100 fps.

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just outside Gun Barrel City, Texas
    Posts
    5,986
    Check out 'cannelure tools'.There's 2-3 companies that make them.

    They're made for j-words, but may be what you're looking for.
    Never ask old people how they are doing.
    Because they'll tell ya, and you really don't want to know.


    In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
    In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,643
    this is where a lee collet style factory crimp die can come in handy. in order for the 432640 to chamber in 444 marlin it has to be seated deep and the Lee FC die keeps it in place

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,828
    Or you can taper crimp them and avoid the above

  5. #5
    Vendor Sponsor


    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    6,667
    Quote Originally Posted by Maven View Post
    Or you can taper crimp them and avoid the above
    Taper crimp vs. 340gr boolit? I don't think so... Maybe in a single shot but not a revolver.

    I mod my Lee collet crimp die to make the crimp band narrow, and lower it down to the case mouth, it will crimp effectively where there is no groove or cannelure. There will be NO boolit movement, and full house charges of H110 and 2400 seem to love the added resistance this crimp provides, as the chrony shows a low ES, 1180 - 1200fps.

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post2239315
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master



    skeettx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Amarillo, Texas
    Posts
    4,011
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    7
    Interesting. I bought a lfc in 45 colt, but couldn't get results like your, bullets I want to load long are the 340g montana WFN-GC .452 .

    The meplet to Crimp grove is around .385. for me to load long at 1.75-1.76 oal, 1.76 - 1.27 = 4.9in. the next lube grove (there are two lube groves) is like .530 down. so using only one lube grove, and using the top one to crimp, I'd have to cut brass down to like 1.21 in. Your idea seems much better than roll crimping on top lube grove. taper crimping on that same grove would allow me to keep brass at 1.27-1.28 stock length.
    How do you come up with these great ideas?

    Would you be interested in modding my crimp die?

  8. #8
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    Check out 'cannelure tools'.There's 2-3 companies that make them.

    They're made for j-words, but may be what you're looking for.

    Not sure what j-word means. sorry. Is this a type of bullet?

    Forget post, I looked it up.. oh boy. ha
    Last edited by scottyd2506; 05-07-2022 at 10:43 AM.

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    65
    As you resize your brass, it stretches. Maybe you can just trim your cases to length?

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master

    mdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So. Orygun
    Posts
    6,989
    The term "Jacketed bullets" is sorta frowned on in a cast boolits forum, so as to offend no one many just say "J bullets". On the same vein as "boolits" vs "bullets". I joined castboolits in about 2007 after lurking for a year or so and the term was in use back then so I don't know when/where it originated...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  11. #11
    Vendor Sponsor


    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    6,667
    Quote Originally Posted by scottyd2506 View Post
    Interesting. I bought a lfc in 45 colt, but couldn't get results like your, bullets I want to load long are the 340g montana WFN-GC .452 .

    The meplet to Crimp grove is around .385. for me to load long at 1.75-1.76 oal, 1.76 - 1.27 = 4.9in. the next lube grove (there are two lube groves) is like .530 down. so using only one lube grove, and using the top one to crimp, I'd have to cut brass down to like 1.21 in. Your idea seems much better than roll crimping on top lube grove. taper crimping on that same grove would allow me to keep brass at 1.27-1.28 stock length.
    How do you come up with these great ideas?

    Would you be interested in modding my crimp die?
    I assume this Q is directed at me, yes I can mod it send me a PM and I will give you the details..

    I came up with that because the collet crimps a band approximately 1/8" wide, half on the case mouth and half on the boolit in front of the case. This is where we DON'T want any reduction in diameter so the forward half of the crimp band is useless in this respect. I take the crimp band down to .045" - .050" wide, and then shorten the skirt of the collet so it brings the crimp band down on the case so it crimps a tiny bit below the case mouth. I would need the die and a measurement from the top of the shell holder to the case mouth to accurately place the crimp band where it belongs.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lee 45 Colt Collet Measurement.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	51.9 KB 
ID:	299938

    This photo shows a 45 Colt round assembled with a relatively hard cast boolit but I found it worked the best using the bottom crimp groove. This may give a shorter COA than your original post describes, but it works great, AND this COA is what is used in the published load data for 30kpsi Ruger Only loads.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lee c452-300RF with Collet Crimp.png 
Views:	14 
Size:	406.6 KB 
ID:	299939

    The harder the alloy, the less crimp will be applied as the hard alloy is much more resistant to crimping the side of the boolit. To be honest, an alloy like 50/50+2% with soft lube takes to Ruger rifling like a duck to water. It works perfectly in all the Ruger 44 and 45 caliber revolvers. I never have to clean mine, haven't cleaned them in years, and if I did run a patch through the barrels, all it would show is dark gray/blackish powder and lube residue which I prefer to be left in the barrel as it "seasons" the barrel by providing some lube capability to the front half of the boolit.
    Last edited by DougGuy; 05-07-2022 at 01:56 PM.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  12. #12
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    I assume this Q is directed at me, yes I can mod it send me a PM and I will give you the details..

    I came up with that because the collet crimps a band approximately 1/8" wide, half on the case mouth and half on the boolit in front of the case. This is where we DON'T want any reduction in diameter so the forward half of the crimp band is useless in this respect. I take the crimp band down to .045" - .050" wide, and then shorten the skirt of the collet so it brings the crimp band down on the case so it crimps a tiny bit below the case mouth. I would need the die and a measurement from the top of the shell holder to the case mouth to accurately place the crimp band where it belongs.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lee 45 Colt Collet Measurement.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	51.9 KB 
ID:	299938
    Does the crimp need to go in a lube grove, or in between? Where I want to have a roll crimp, is almost always between the crimp grove and top lube grove.
    So I'm guessing the taper crimp will either be on/in the lube grove or close. (I wouldn't do this if a bullet had only one lube grove. But that is another story.)
    I recon it best to send a bullet or two and brass or loaded dummy round at the oal I want, so you can fit it correctly.

    I use the lee shell holder that came with my 4 set 45 colt dies. That measurement is 1.148 inch from case mouth to top of shell holder on 1.272 inch brass (new starline 45 colt).
    Last edited by scottyd2506; 05-08-2022 at 04:52 PM.

  13. #13
    Vendor Sponsor


    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    6,667
    Quote Originally Posted by scottyd2506 View Post
    Does the crimp need to go in a lube grove, or in between? Where I want to have a roll crimp, is almost always between the crimp grove and top lube grove.
    So I'm guessing the taper crimp will either be on/in the lube grove or close. (I wouldn't do this if a bullet had only one lube grove. But that is another story.)
    I recon it best to send a bullet or two and brass or loaded dummy round at the oal I want, so you can fit it correctly.
    Read again please, all I need is the die and the measurement shown.

    This will crimp anywhere you seat the boolit, crimp groove or not. Softer alloys will respond better to the crimp than hard alloys simply because the hard alloy is just that, hard.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    Read again please, all I need is the die and the measurement shown.

    This will crimp anywhere you seat the boolit, crimp groove or not. Softer alloys will respond better to the crimp than hard alloys simply because the hard alloy is just that, hard.
    1.148 inch

  15. #15
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    7
    Update.

    I took my Lee crimp die apart, and ground down the sleve like DougGuy did.

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post2239315

    This is his idea, this measurements worked great on HIS bullets, but on mine, the taper crimp was right on edge of lube grove at 1.75-1.76 in oal round with 340g Montana. trying to crimp at the depth squeezed enough to pop into the lube grove, resulting in a 1.79 oal..., So I ground the bottom of the die sleeve more. Also have to grind bottom of die body some.


    How I did this wo uneven surface around die and sleeve?
    I used a grinder wheel, put collet sleeve in a drill chuck, spun drill. so it would grind even, 60 grit, 120 ,500 grit., also I have to grind the bottom of die body a little using same method.

    if you look at the photos post LINK above (DougGuy) where brass is sticking out the top, mine sticks out a little more, .070 .

    With 1.272 oal brass. a top of shell holder to top of brass measurement is 1.148. sleeve measures 1.076in, die body 2.120in.
    I prob have .020-.030 more ground off the top of sleeve than DougGuy's sleeve, I rounded the outside edge enough where operation is smooth.

    My crimp band is lower down the case mouth. I loaded some dummy round, played around with light tapping in bullet pull hammer, they stay put. much better than before.

    I was going to send my die to DougGuy, but there was so much trial and error. back & forth to mill more off.

    With the 0.70 casemouth sticking out of sleeve., it's a good start, anyone wanting to buy 340g montana, wanting to load long, I can get DougGuy some extra work. These dies are taylor made for the 340g Montana .452 cast. made to crimp in the top lube grove, I'll add 50/50 moly/beeswax lube to bottom.

    Rounds work great at 1.75 oal (we will see what they do under recoil.). Loading long like this you can achieve more power, and most important, less pressure on your gun per your loads in a blackhawk. Majority of my shooting will be coyboy type loads. but if ever I go to griz country, the 340's at 1200 fps and 29k psi might seem overkill to some, but it's not a 454 either.




    When my cylinder gets done next week or so, the real test will show itself.
    Last edited by scottyd2506; 05-08-2022 at 04:49 PM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    7
    So far so good, taper crimp works well, loading rounded at 1.75 oal.
    Ruger 45 Colt Blackhawk 7.5in bbl, .4525 thraoted cylinder.

    A bunch of coyboy loads, and to test cylinder bullet pull.

    Ruger Blackhawk (redhawk) only load
    24.0g H110 1.75 oal cci-300, 340 gr WFN Montana 29k psi (quickload)
    1230 fps
    1247 fps
    1267 fps

    25.0g mp-300 1.75 oal cci-300, 340 gr WFN Montana 28k psi (quickload)
    1224 fps
    1216 fps
    1201 fps
    1233 fps

    Heavy recoil loads, not painful, but will develop a flinch, if you don't do your part.
    Bullets stayed in place well.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check