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Thread: Over and Under barrel separation.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master beezapilot's Avatar
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    Over and Under barrel separation.

    Buddy of mine has a Perazzi O/U and the center rib between the barrels is separating from the lower barrel. I remember reading an SKB flyer that talked about keeping powder solvents off the out union of the top barrel and the rib as the solvent would attack the glue holding it on. This does not look like it was silver soldered in, so perhaps glue? My thought is to try to clean the oil out of the union (with a degreaser that does not further attack the adhesive???? Any thoughts????) and let capillary attraction suck one of the tightbond / loc-tight adhesives into the union. Anyone run into this??? My bud indicated that it is not uncommon on Perazzi's.
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master oldhenry's Avatar
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    I'll keep up with this thread with interest. My son has an SKB with the same problem.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master


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    It ain't glue! It is soldered, but cold soldered. The barrel mid-ribs can be pinned by a few craftsman around the country. It is common on Perazzi shotguns and the longer the barrels the more common the problem. It is caused partially by heat, the other factor being vibrations while firing. I shoot a Perazzi MX8 SC3 in Sporting Clays competition. I have owned this one for about 14 years and it has approximately 350,000 rounds through it. My mid ribs came loose and my barrels were pinned within a couple of years after it was new and no problems since then.
    Please don't try to repair a Perazzi with jack-leg methods. It is a top quality shotgun and deserves better.
    Let me know if you would like the info on gunsmiths who can appropriately repair the issue.
    Rick

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    I can't understand why the makers of high dollar shotguns cannot silver solder their ribs and barrels. We did so at Ruger and didn't charge $10K for the guns either.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master


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    As I understand it the heat from silver solder may burn through the barrel walls. One of Perazzi's claims to fame is the weight and balance of the shotgun. If they had to add thickness to withstand the heat the shotgun would become "Clubby" as many others are. Kreighoff is undergoing some changes in order to allow a Kreighoff to have similar handling characteristics.
    Rick

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    I call BS on above. With modern, computerized induction silver soldering no risk to barrel integrity. Good enough for Ruger, Remington, Beretta and Browning. FN in Belgium designed the machinery used by everyone, even in Turkey, Spain and Russia. Difference is GREED.
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    As I understand it, silver brazing will affect the hardness and tensile strength of the high quality steel used for thin walled barrels.
    I've seen a couple of cheap Spanish side-by-sides with full length brazed barrels - and outward bulges at the start of the chokes.
    Cap'n Morgan

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Morgan View Post
    As I understand it, silver brazing will affect the hardness and tensile strength of the high quality steel used for thin walled barrels.
    I've seen a couple of cheap Spanish side-by-sides with full length brazed barrels - and outward bulges at the start of the chokes.
    Our experience at Ruger examining shotgun barrels from the European makers was that unless the barrels were rotary hammer - forged on GFM equipment, as are Ruger, Beretta, FN and Mirouku barrels, a process which requires clean, high strength alloy steels, those still bored and reamed from bar stock were plain carbon steel of inferior chemistry, structure, hardness and strength. Several high priced, well known makers fell into that category.
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    I have heard that black Loctite will hold a rib on but I have not tried it. Many of the older shotguns were soft soldered, that's why many shops will not try to blue them. With the proper oven and jigs silver solder can be used. Most high strength silver solders take about 1100 degrees but there are some with less strength that will work with lower temp. The hard part with SXS or over/under is keeping the barrels regulated.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    I'm a huge DIY guy, but if this were me, I'd suggest your friend see if there is a Perazzi approved repair center in the US, or a gunsmith who specializes in Perazzi repairs. I don't know specifically what model Perazzi he has, but that brand isn't know for being budget priced. It may be worth paying for a professional job versus a DIY attempt on an expensive shotgun. It sounds like RickinTN has experience here and can make recommendations.
    If it were a cheap gun, or if you were already experienced and knew how to do this repair, then its a different story. My advice is to not risk making a kluge job of your friends expensive shotgun.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    I call BS on above. With modern, computerized induction silver soldering no risk to barrel integrity. Good enough for Ruger, Remington, Beretta and Browning. FN in Belgium designed the machinery used by everyone, even in Turkey, Spain and Russia. Difference is GREED.
    Outpost,
    I have the utmost respect for you sir, as I am one of the few here who actually knows who you are. On the above subject you are wrong, Sir. Contact Perazzi USA if you would like and ask or Dan Lokker with Giacomo Sporting in New York State. I am one of a group of shooters who shoot 34" barrels, and I shoot them well. The longer the barrels and the hotter they get the more likely to have a rib separation. Perazzi has been building shotguns for many years and will not change. The Ruger shotguns you built were for a weekend warrior who will shoot 4 or 5 boxes a year. Mine, and other Perazzi shotguns are built to shoot thousands of rounds a year. Mine has seen somewhere between 350,000 and 400,000 rounds and is about 14 years old.
    Take care sir!
    Rick

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy Newboy's Avatar
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    Used to shoot some live pigeon matches in Oklahoma back in the 60's. They have to fall, so I loaded a little heavier than normal.

    Using Browning Superposed.

    Never had any trouble until one match when two of us were using the same gun.

    Got it hot enough the barrels separated.

    Sent it back, they fixed it. Never happened again.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  13. #13
    Boolit Master



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    I had a set of 12 gauge barrel separate on a SKB side by side. I sent the gun to Simmons and they regulated and re-soldered the barrels. I shot the SXS in the dove field and also on the skeet field before the separation and shot it a lot. I don't know if it was my getting older(in my late 60's and early 70's by then) or the barrels are just not quite regulated right but I miss more since I got the SKB back than I did before. james

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Brother was given a high grade Italian double because the solder had failed.......gun was 5 figure new,but owner bought a new gun so as not to be inconvenienced .....anyhoo,brother says he will fix the solder himself.......so will be interesting to see the result.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master beezapilot's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=RickinTN;5399368]Outpost,
    The longer the barrels and the hotter they get the more likely to have a rib separation.

    I'm probably wrong, but chatted with some old timers. One explained that should you shoot serious trap with an OU you are asking for trouble, and my buddy does that, shoots lower barrel for trap. So when he shoots (for example) ATA- that is 50 rounds at 16 in fairly quick order. The lower barrel is much hotter than the upper and has expanded a fair amount- so that middle rib has some significant torque on it as it stabilizes the barrels and acct like a heat sink. His lower barrel is separating from the rib. The old timer said that was the thing with the Rem 3200's essentially no center rib, the "unsingles" sets have a single singles barrel so there is no stress. I have a little doo dad called a "peeping tom" that you can check for barrel bend with- I'll bring that to the range hand have a look at some freshly shot O/U's to see if there is any anomolies.. doubt it, but inquiring minds want to know.
    The essence of education is self reliance- T.H. White.

    Currently seeking wood carving tools, wood planes, froes, scorps, spokeshaves... etc....

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    I haven't thought about shooting only one barrel for quite a while and getting it hot but your theory sounds to have merit. The longer barrels have different vibrations than the shorter ones and there is the problem. Word on the street has it that 34" barrels will separate, 33" and 32" probably will, and 30" and shorter may never separate. I only have hands on experience with one 34" gun but friends have a few more. They all have come apart. I witnessed My good friend Wendell Cherry trying to zip tie his top rib back to the barrels on the final day of the National Championships a few years ago. My one time "pinning" of my barrels has held for 12 years or so. I will mention that I don't shoot it as much as I did early on. 25,000 rounds a year then, and about 5,000 rounds a year recently.
    Rick

  17. #17
    Boolit Master



    skeettx's Avatar
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    Send it back to P-Gun and have them fix it

    CALL THEM

    https://www.perazzi.it/en/usa-canada-network-3.php

    https://www.perazzi.it/en/
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

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