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Thread: 45 acp hollow point

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    The bullet simply did not hit enough meat to reliably expand. Remember that you really don't want these sort of rounds to explode on skin or clothing contact. You want decent penetration in tough muscle and bone. Instead, you hit the ballistic equivalent of a bell pepper.

    If you want something designed to expand fast on small game - pick a CCI minimag or Velocitor in Segmented hollow point or a 17hmr with fast expanding gummy tips.

    The thing with small game is that their vitals are tiny. You gotta shoot really small to brain a raccoon, possum, squirrel, or rat. Think hitting a bottle cap. Get a solid heart shot and you wait 3-5 minutes for it to bleed out.
    Last edited by truckjohn; 05-02-2022 at 07:41 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by memtb View Post
    Raccoons are tough, with a will to live. I had a “very” hot 160 grain JSP load developed for my .357 mag for deer hunting. I had the opportunity to shoot a raccoon with my “deer load” at about 15 yards, not once but twice. The raccoon ran about 30 or 40 yards before “tipping over”! The brief autopsy indicated that both rounds were well placed, either would have been fatal…..eventually! This is when I lost some confidence in my “deer load” and lost “ALL” confidence in a .357 Magnum as being a “bear stopping” cartridge! Just my experiences and my opinion! memtb
    That 160 bullet at high velocity, had it been a jhp instead of a jsp probably would've done better for you. The jsp you used stood no chance of expanding on a raccoon, but probably would've been great on deer. A good lead WFN much better for bear. The 357 kills a lot of stuff well, just gotta match the bullet to the critter.

  3. #23
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    We could speculate on this or that till the end of time.

    The facts are the bullets DID expand. The recovered bullet is huge, about .850". The exits did NOT produce very large holes. What happened internally, I do not know. Three shots (if you ignore the sliced bullet) produced three cookie cutter results. Those first pictures are what this bullet, at this speed, with that alloy will do to an animal. You may draw your own conclusions on if that is good or bad, or why it did what it did.

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy memtb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bisleyfan41 View Post
    That 160 bullet at high velocity, had it been a jhp instead of a jsp probably would've done better for you. The jsp you used stood no chance of expanding on a raccoon, but probably would've been great on deer. A good lead WFN much better for bear. The 357 kills a lot of stuff well, just gotta match the bullet to the critter.

    I was only about 18 or 19 at the time…..learned a lot since then! One thing that I learned…..use the JHP’s on humans not larger animals. For game with handguns…..it’s been wide metplat cast bullets since around 1980. They’ve worked pretty well! memtb
    You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

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  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Gonna guess any caliber with exact same shot placement shooting under 2,000 fps is going to have the same results Mega had. I haven’t shot a lot of animals with cast…yet. But the ones I have so far with cast and jacketed bullets I received the same type of results as Mega did…with the same type of broadside double lung shot placement. Head, neck, or backbone will anchor them usually. Once I broke the 2,000 fps barrier (2078fps was my chronied load) things dropped where they stood with the same broadside double lung shots. I also used softer alloy with the faster velocities to aid in “shock” and energy dump. Of course a head shot in a trap line will drop any animal in its tracks with any caliber. If you hit them just right their eyeballs will pop out just like you see in cartoons. I shot my bobcat broadside with a 22lr Winchester 333 HP that did the same…in a foot hold last year. They are pretty wimpy IMO.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 05-03-2022 at 10:20 AM.

  6. #26
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    I have cast loads that put groundhogs in several pieces and it doesn't take 2000 fps. The key is like any other cartridge, low penetration and adequate energy. Some 45/70 and 22/250 loads have the same energy, but dramatically different penetration. The 22-250 with a varmit bullet will make a watermelon size and shape temporary stretch cavity and the 45/70 hard cast will make a 5 foot long garden hose shaped temporary stretch cavity.

    You aren't gonna tear a raccoon in half with 350 foot pounds, no matter what cartridge, whether the bullet penetrates 4 inches or 4 feet because there just isn't enough energy. If you get up to 800-1000 foot pounds, AND you are using all that energy in a short distance, you will see some dramatic stuff start to happen to varmints. I have a Ranch Dog 175 HP for my 357 rifle. 169 grain cast bullet penetrates 2 jugs with 140 grains of shrapnel, then in jug 3 there is only the 30 grain base driving band with gas check. This is horrible for deer but will put a groundhog into 3 pieces at 1600 fps impact speed.
    Last edited by mnewcomb59; 05-03-2022 at 11:19 AM.

  7. #27
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    Nothing wrong here. Like a couple have stated- if first shot isn’t good enough or in cns, they are going to run off. That’s just what they do and everyone of them will be different. Your load is fine it’s just not going to grenade a coon.

  8. #28
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    And after hundreds of autopsies, don’t go by the exit hole in the hide. It generally means nothing with lower velocity

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    We could speculate on this or that till the end of time.

    The facts are the bullets DID expand. The recovered bullet is huge, about .850". The exits did NOT produce very large holes. What happened internally, I do not know. Three shots (if you ignore the sliced bullet) produced three cookie cutter results. Those first pictures are what this bullet, at this speed, with that alloy will do to an animal. You may draw your own conclusions on if that is good or bad, or why it did what it did.
    Do you think the bullet expanded in the animal or in the dirt on the other side of the critter? I've shot small game with 38 Special HP's that didn't expand and the results were the same as you experienced. I chalk up these situations as the slow, heavy for target slug pushing through but not really disrupting the organs violently enough to drop them on the spot. I've shot groundhogs with 50 caliber conical slugs out of the muzzleloader leaving the barrel at 1,180 fps and they've run to their dens multiple times. They died just inside the hole but it didn't drop them DRT. Even deer with big heavy but slow slugs do the same. Living in a state that doesn't allow for CF bottle neck cartridges to be used for the medium game we have, WT Deer, a quick run is the norm and not the exception in my experience.

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    I'm sure 20/1 is getting pretty soft. Nope, I shot 50:1 in 40sw, expanded slightly on fiberboard backer.
    Coon, rabbit etc are small animals. Hit them with 3-400 ft-# and they move sideways! Completely different than shooting 200# deer or hog.
    Whatever!

  11. #31
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    A lot of you need to re-read this whole thread. I posted this for one reason, to show what actually happens in the real world. There is nothing wrong with this load, bullet, or caliber.
    Facts:

    The bullets DID expand greatly.

    The recovered bullet was stopped by the skin on the far side; no dirt or water involved.

    The entrance and exit holes were not that impressive, despite expanding to well over 3/4" inside the animal.

    I have no idea what the internals look like, that will have to be a different animal.

  12. #32
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    the main thing is you got the waskle
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    the main thing is you got the waskle
    There's no shortage of them or coyotes. You wouldn't know it at first glance, but South Dakota is a predator paradise.

  14. #34
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    A full weight round nose "hardball" mold given conversion with a huge hollow point provides the nice feeding exterior contour for an easy to mushroom boolit. And so much the better a gas check base for use with the mushy soft alloys you need for lots of expansion.

  15. #35
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    The only time I've shot a raccoon with a pistol caliber round and had it go DRT, it was with a .357 Magnum, loaded with a Sierra 125 gr. JSP loaded over a max charge of W296, and FIRED from a 20" carbine barrel. It was at 20 - 25 yards, and the animal paused from eating dogfood from the feeder, sat up higher, and then fell over.
    From that day forward, I concluded that the use of a rifle fully capable of taking white tail out to 100 yards is NOT excessive on smaller critters.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
    He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
    ...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40


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  16. #36
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    A full weight round nose "hardball" mold given conversion with a huge hollow point provides the nice feeding exterior contour for an easy to mushroom boolit. And so much the better a gas check base for use with the mushy soft alloys you need for lots of expansion.
    The OP doesn’t need to change anything about his load, it mushroomed fully without “mushy soft alloys” or a gas check and fed fine. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Post #31.



    .

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PositiveCaster View Post
    The OP doesn’t need to change anything about his load, it mushroomed fully without “mushy soft alloys” or a gas check and fed fine. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Post #31.



    .
    The only reason to change would be if the 100 yard trail to a log was excessive. If he is looking for a DRT load he does need to explore other options.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  18. #38
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    Due to the elasticity of an animals hide, I learned many years ago that entrance and exit wounds in an animals hide gave absolutely no indication of the internal damage done, especially where HPs were concerned. I pay no attention to the "evidence" of a bullets effectiveness bases on the size of a bullets hole going in and the exit out through the hide.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  19. #39
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PositiveCaster View Post
    The OP doesn’t need to change anything about his load, it mushroomed fully without “mushy soft alloys” or a gas check and fed fine. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Post #31.



    .
    Heh, look at post #3. And check out NOE 452-232-HP.


    .

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy catboat's Avatar
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    What did the raccoon do to you to have you shoot it?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check