Easy way to alloy antimony*video*

[Wolfdog91]

Found this after a bunch of clicking. I know someone is else talked about using this exact method and it really seems super easy especially now that I have a PID. One thing I'm curious about though, does anyone happen to know if their is a cartridge for my 3m half mast respirator that will work on the antimony fumes ? Yes I know I'm a wuss for wearing one but I kinda like my lungs and it seems to be cheap insurance lol

[Drew P]

I don’t think fumes are an issue as antimony melts at very high temp. It dissolves in lead, not melt. The dust of the solid metal however is very dangerous. So, ventilate accordingly. I’ll admit I didn’t watch the vid though, as I have not had any trouble alloying antimony into lead. It’s super easy, about like melting an ice cube in a cocktail, but probably safer.

[charlie b]

Since it is dust that is the issue (same problem with lead), then the std 3M masks have P100 filters which are designed for this kind of thing.

[justindad]

Here’s an SDS. Might want to wear goggles.

https://www.jscc.edu/about-jackson-s...s/antimony.pdf

[Mal Paso]

Here’s an SDS. Might want to wear goggles.

https://www.jscc.edu/about-jackson-s...s/antimony.pdf

Reads like The State of california. "WE know this is hazardous but don't know why and can't prove it."

[justindad]

Word. I don’t consider any California warnings as legitimate. One thing that was unusual to me was the “skin contact” followed by “serious skin contact” and similar for the inhalation followed by serious inhalation. I haven’t seen the serious items before. That could mean that heavy exposure is needed before it matters, or perhaps the opposite.

[Drew P]

FYI the melting point of antimony is 1168°F, and boiling is 3600°F, vapor temp somewhere in between.

[Willie T]

FYI the melting point of antimony is 1168°F, and boiling is 3600°F, vapor temp somewhere in between.

The hazard lies in breathing the dust when you break it into pieces small enough to add the desired quantity to your alloy. The precautions you should already employ while smelting lead will keep you safe.

[TurnipEaterDown]

The video was interesting.
I had been "told" via several sources that a home caster couldn't do this. Probably an overreach from 'shouldn't w/o precaution / knowledge'. Nice to get actual knowledge instead of warning cloaked as knowledge. Apparently helicopter activity isn't just for parents...

It does look like the person in the video however is using a hardware cloth (that is what we call that coarse ~ 1/4" heavy duty screen here) "bag" to immerse the antimony below the surface of the lead in the casting pot.
I would think if that is what that mesh is, it's not the best idea. Most of that type of material I have seen is galvanized, which by definition is a process of coating a iron / steel object w/ zinc. (https://galvanizeit.org/inspection-c...nizing-process)
Seems like some zinc could get in your pot that way. Probably better to think of just wrapping the antimony chunk w/ plain steel 'cobble wire' or length of copper wire to poke down in the pot.

The California warnings can seem somewhat overblown, and all of us do deal with materials hazardous to our health frequently (gasoline is really quite bad) and have a better life for it, but most of that CA health warning protectionism extremism is built on science. I worked on a contract for NIH at one time where we looked at mutagenic and carcinogenic activity of combustion by-products. It is real science, even if CA is fond of employing control freak greenies.
Place I worked in at one point in my career used to let people 'wash' their hands in MEK. Might I say that that practice is a Really Bad idea...

[Willie T]

Zinc melting point is 787.2 Fahrenheit. If you are monitoring your temperature, (like you should be doing if you smelt wheel weights), you will not melt zinc into your alloy.
The internet gives everyone an equal voice to weigh in on any topic, regardless of their experience or knowledge and before you know it, internet myths are born. With regards to smelting, casting, alloying, and reloading: Always verify internet advice with published data or science. Including anything I post(ed).
Willie

[bangerjim]

Yes, the dangerous parts are the metal dust and oxides - just like lead. Glad to see you found a vid showing how-to.

The small amount of Zn gained by that tiny bit of hardware cloth is negligible. I have proven with tests (written about on here for years) that anything under 5% Zn causes NO degradation in your castings.

The guy needs to take a class on making instructional videos!!!!!!! No planning or arranging. Waaaaasy too much time wasted with him just wandering around off camera, babbling, doing unneeded fiddling with stuff, and visiting the wife (?). What the ......? And the 1st law of video production, be it with a camera or your phone - it takes TWO to make a good video - - one to do the acting and the other to run/handle/move the camera during the shoot. A simple dry run-thru would have benefited this way-to-long production.

That is why I rarely watch anything on utube. Too many people love to hear and see themselves on the "TV".

[MT Gianni]

Bill Ferguson was old in the 90's when I started casting. He was a wealth of information and had developed a flux that allowed antimony to mix with lead at temperatures reached by the home caster. IIRC, it was LETS brand. Bill had a degree in mining engineering and metals IIRC and was willing to talk to people in terms that all could understand. Then most wheel weights contained 1/2 % antimony and that was all you needed to water drop harden, which was the reason to have it.
Antimony can leave a rougher, grain structure and isn't always needed for my shooting.

[Mal Paso]

Word. I don’t consider any California warnings as legitimate. One thing that was unusual to me was the “skin contact” followed by “serious skin contact” and similar for the inhalation followed by serious inhalation. I haven’t seen the serious items before. That could mean that heavy exposure is needed before it matters, or perhaps the opposite.

It's not you! It was the "Not Available", "Not Available", "Not Available", then "Human, passes through the placenta, excreted in maternal milk."

Sounds like junk science to me!

[TurnipEaterDown]

To "BangerJim" on the zinc %: Thanks.
I didn't know it was a 5% threshold.
That's another thing that people "say": any zinc will contaminate your pot and make mold fill drop off: rounded bands and such. I guess that's more bad info.

Is it a fact though that the zinc absolutely will not go in until the melting point of zinc (787° F)?

It had been said before (this forum and other places that discuss casting) that the Antimony won't go in until the melting point of antimony, and that is obviously not true.

I knew alloying wasn't just melting two or more metals and mixing, but it had been repeated in several published places that Antimony in pure form would not alloy in a lead base w/ home casting equipment, so I believed that it at least did have to be above common temps reached in casting lead bullets before the antimony would melt in.

I do remember melting down wheel weights and having some that seemed "stubborn" and sat on top until the melt was stirred or they were poked.
Since I didn't allow the pot to get really hot for making ingots (I would ladle out into ingot molds when all just melted to throw in more weights), I had thought that I just had really dirty weights: coated w/ oils, oxide, dirt, paint, etc. Now I don't know.
Do the zinc weights really only float out unless the lead base is 787°?

If so, why do people sort first? Why wouldn't you just keep the pot down to 700-ish, and work from there?

[Willie T]

To "BangerJim" on the zinc %: Thanks.
I didn't know it was a 5% threshold.
That's another thing that people "say": any zinc will contaminate your pot and make mold fill drop off: rounded bands and such. I guess that's more bad info.



Is it a fact though that the zinc absolutely will not go in until the melting point of zinc (787° F)?

It had been said before (this forum and other places that discuss casting) that the Antimony won't go in until the melting point of antimony, and that is obviously not true.

I knew alloying wasn't just melting two or more metals and mixing, but it had been repeated in several published places that Antimony in pure form would not alloy in a lead base w/ home casting equipment, so I believed that it at least did have to be above common temps reached in casting lead bullets before the antimony would melt in.

I do remember melting down wheel weights and having some that seemed "stubborn" and sat on top until the melt was stirred or they were poked.
Since I didn't allow the pot to get really hot for making ingots (I would ladle out into ingot molds when all just melted to throw in more weights), I had thought that I just had really dirty weights: coated w/ oils, oxide, dirt, paint, etc. Now I don't know.
Do the zinc weights really only float out unless the lead base is 787°?

If so, why do people sort first? Why wouldn't you just keep the pot down to 700-ish, and work from there?

I smelt wheel weights at around 675 F. Any zinc missed in the sort float and are dipped out with the clips.

[TurnipEaterDown]

That's what I had always done "Willie T", just melt the WW at a reasonable temp (I remember ~ 700°), and just skim the crud from the top.
I never really sorted first, just scooped them in, valve stems and all (cigarette butts, etc.)

Does make me wonder what the occasional floater I had was though, again they were usually very dirty visually, and some I remember being painted. Usually after collapsing they would leave a "husk" at the top of the pot that I would skim off.