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Thread: Alloy for .30-40 Krag, and pressures

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Alloy for .30-40 Krag, and pressures

    I have a .30-40 Krag sporter that I rarely shoot. However, I recently bought a Weaver K3 for it and found a box of Remington factory ammo (180 gr Core-Lokt), so off to the range I went.

    It shot pretty well. This was the last of the bullets I had for 100 yds after sighting in, save 5 more for 200 yds which shot a little more than 2x as big.



    My question now is how to make it shoot well with handloads and cast bullets.

    I have a mold 311284 which has, more or less, the original round-nosed profile. It is gas checked and weighs a nominal 220 gr in mystery alloy.

    So, my question is what sort of alloy would be best. What I know and use a lot is lead:tin mixes as stiff, as 16:1 to as soft as 40:1.

    I also have several hundred pounds of lead that is supposed to be pure -but certainly is not. It is was also supposed to be from Helicopter rotor weights (doubt it). What I do know is that it likes to be cast at least 100 degrees cooler than my normal Lead:tin mixes. It produces a very nice, but frosty white looking bullet. It is lighter (less dense) than even 16:1. Its hardness is comparable to Lyman #2 (this from a friend that tested the hardness for me). Whatever this is, is it likely to be better than lead:tin alloy?

    While we are at it, would this mystery alloy be acceptable for a .38-40 load (180 gr RCBS Cowboy bullet, 7 gr Unique)?

    Finally, I'm looking at recipes in the Lyman 4th (page 147). I see loads for 4198 and 5744 from 18 gr to 28 gr. But there are no pressures listed. I'm unlikely to go to max loads, but someday I may want to hunt an elk with this. So, how do I know these are safe in a Krag rifle? After all, they chambered .30-40 in Ruger #1s and certainly that could take much more pressure. I'm only interested in safe loads for a Krag rifle.

    Thanks for all comments.

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    In my Bannerman Krag Sporter I use NOE clone of .312-299 sized .312" and cast from wheelweights plus 2%tin with 30 grains of 4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 05-01-2022 at 10:17 PM.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    I use Lyman #2 hardness with no problems in the 1500fps range. Somewhere between 14-16 gr 2400 should be accurate with low pressure.

    Highly recommend the bore be slugged. Mine was .303 bore diameter. The groove diameter was .314. I size at .314”, but will soon have a .315” sizer die just to be sure. I use mold 314299 in mine. 311291 and 311284 wobbled when inserted into the muzzle, that’s why I slugged the bore to see what was going on.

    Finally, I only neck size brass.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    In my Krag sporter used 12 grs of Blue Dot behind the GC 311-284, quite accurate and a pleasure to shoot (1400-1500 fps) Alloy was 92-6-2. For load development and pressure data use the cast data for the 308 Win, case capacity is slightly larger in the 30/40 and stay below the upper Krag pressures (42K PSI). If the barrel on your sporter is good you should have no problem getting fine accuracy as long as the bullet matches the bore. Only 30/40 rifles now are Ruger #3's and they do really well with the 311291.

  5. #5
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    i use 165gr ranch dogs and h4198 going 1930 fps. i use COWW and a smidge of tin or a 10:1.
    the RD makes deer dead.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks! There is a lot to think about here.

    I will probably be using 5477, which Lyman shows as being good to go for my GC311284 and 18-28 gr of that powder. I'll probably be be on the low end. Unfortunately, the book does not list pressures for ANY Krag load, so can I assume all of these will be safe in a good condition Krag 98?

    I will use some Javelina Schuetzen lube on my Lyman#2-like mystery lead. But I am running low and don't know where to get any more. Lube suggestions are always welcome.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Brent, within the last few months the assra forum had a bunch of posts regarding your favorite Javelina lube. So at least it is still available. Might have to order it from Javelina directly. Hope this helps. Frank

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by samari46 View Post
    Brent, within the last few months the assra forum had a bunch of posts regarding your favorite Javelina lube. So at least it is still available. Might have to order it from Javelina directly. Hope this helps. Frank
    It does help! I'll have to track them down.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Use White Label XLOX 2500 on all my bullets, works and does not require a heater.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich/WIS View Post
    Use White Label XLOX 2500 on all my bullets, works and does not require a heater.
    thanks!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master WRideout's Avatar
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    As I recall, the 311284 was originally designed for the 30/40, and so should be very adequate in your rifle. If you are using low pressure/velocity loads, somewhat softer lead is appropriate. At pressures approaching max, harder lead may work better. Something like straight clip-on wheelweight might work very well, if some is available to you.

    Wayne
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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Wayne, I think this stuff that has the hardness of Lyman #2 is probably close to as hard as pure WW.

    I cast a bunch from this harder lead to try. I'll cast some with a 16:1 Lead:tin mix and compare.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    311284 is an original Barlow Ideal design for the 30-40 Krag and is still a good one. Alloy depends on how fast you want the bullet to go. I use air cooled wheel weight plus about 1.5% tin. No 2 alloy would also be a good choice. I don't think any of the binary (lead/tin) alloys will get you where you want to be. Sizing diameter can be an issue. The barrel groove diameter of Krag barrels vary allot. Size you bullets as large as the chamber throat will accommodate and allow the case neck a smidge of room to expand and the the bullet leave without constriction. Usually this is .312 or perhaps .313. This diameter will work well in most Krag barrels, however they are a few barrels with gargantuan bore diameters that are larger than .312, even going to .316. In those barrels you will need to thin the case neck by turning to enable to larger bullets to chamber. You will need to clean the barrel down to bare steel when you switch to cast bullets. This can be quite a chore as some Krag barrels are heavily fouled with bullet metal. I favor 2400 power at about 15-16 grains although moderate charges medium rate powders like 4895 do well.

    Just a note on Krag accuracy. These rifles do not have a recoil lug like a Mauser and depend on the contact between the rear of the magazine and the stock for recoil absorption. If this is not a firm fit, the action came move forward and aft between shots, which degrades accuracy. This can be corrected with a bit of glass bedding compound.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks, Char-Gar. The target I posted seems to be fairly good evidence that the gun is reasonably accurate. I've managed to repeat that as well. It is a very nicely done stocking job.

    I have not checked the groove diameter, but I will see about doing that soon. The bore is clean, in excellent condition, and lead free.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Don't assume the bore is bare metal clean, give it a once over with copper solvent. You maybe right about it being clean but then again it may surprise you. I have surprised myself with the amount of copper fouling I have removed from what looked like clean barrels.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    No assuming... I scrubbed it and bore scoped it. Although I fired 20 rounds of copper two weeks ago and have yet to clean that. But otherwise, it was clean. I've heard that shooting lead over copper is a good way to get bad leading so I have a big copper cleaning session ahead of me. I hate cleaning copper so I have not shot any in at least 30 yrs until now.

    Most of my rifles shoot paper patched lead. SO MUCH EASIER! I may go that way one day with this rifle but that would be a big departure from my bpcr lever guns, singleshots, and muzzleloaders.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    One more question. The photos is a gas checked 311284 bullet cast with the mystery lead mentioned above. I've run it through a lubrisizer loaded with Scheutzen javelina lube. The bullet is loaded to the correct OAL, which leaves this small groove exposed. I originally thought this was a crimp groove but it is not. The nose of the bullet is slightly small in diameter and if I lube this top groove I tend to get lube squirting up along the nose, so I left it unfilled. Is this okay? There is precious little lube carried on these bullets. That's great, because I don't have much left, but is it enough?

    If that groove is not filled with lube and it's not a crimp groove, why is it even there?


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrentD View Post
    Thanks! There is a lot to think about here.

    I will probably be using 5477, which Lyman shows as being good to go for my GC311284 and 18-28 gr of that powder. I'll probably be be on the low end. Unfortunately, the book does not list pressures for ANY Krag load, so can I assume all of these will be safe in a good condition Krag 98?

    I will use some Javelina Schuetzen lube on my Lyman#2-like mystery lead. But I am running low and don't know where to get any more. Lube suggestions are always welcome.
    Yes, you can assume the loads listed in the Lyman manual are at a safe pressure level for you Krag. However, start at the "start" load and work up to the MAX load and stop there or stop if pressure signs appear before then or when accuracy goes south.
    Larry Gibson

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  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Believe the groove was a carry over from BP and was a scraping groove to collect fouling from the prior shot.

    Lyman #2 i(95-5-5) should be quite a bit harder, about 15-16 BHN, than modern wheel weights (97-3Sb) which about 12-13 BNH.

  20. #20
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    Eddie Southgate's Avatar
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    Shouldn't have to do with black powder fouling as the Krag was never loaded with black powder that I am aware of . It was the first adopted US Military rifle round designed for Smokeless powder .
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check