80,000 PSI new ARMY .277_Fury round

[Oldfeller]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.277_FURY

GREATLY OUTPERFORMS the 6.5 Creedmore by running 80,000 psi in a steel headed, brass sided 3 part composite case that weighs much less than a solid brass case and is FAR CHEAPER to make. This sounds like where guns are headed ---- much much higher pressures contained in stainless steel composite cases.

Looks sorta like a .270-08 don't it? Note the option exists to stamp the body sides out of "soft" stainless with the steel head still being a harder material. Such composite rounds can run on up to 100,000 psi if the gun's action and splines/lugs can take it. A point of reference here, a .223 proof round runs at 82,250 psi in a SAMMI spec chamber so this isn't completely unknown territory ..... and the Stoner designed AR action can indeed take it.

This is a presentation of both the round and the sniper rifle from Sig Sauer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GvZth5ALw4


And this is a SAMMI style drawing of the case outer dimensions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:....MI_diagram.png

[Jeff Michel]

We needed something to kill stuff deader..........

[AlaskaMike]

I can't imagine barrels would last long on a steady diet of 80kpsi ammo.

[Oldfeller]

Ammo that shoots further, hits faster and harder with a heavier bullet, also means completed ammo weighs a lot less so a trooper can carry more of it.

It means guns and ammo will be different in the future.

Powders will be faster, the charges will be less weight and have a smaller bulk intending to burn and boost inside a 16" barrel.

Most throat erosion we are familiar with came from magnum charges of still burning powder choking down the throat constriction to get to the bore while still burning furiously.

This stuff will be mostly done burning while still in the case ...... which is fine for jacketed bullets which is what it was built for.

But it doesn't sound very cast friendly, does it? Perhaps more of a powder coat friendly rather than grease/bees wax friendly, but still likely way too intense in full loads for old style grease lube normal techniques to give good accuracy.

But you can easily back the loadings down for cast use in bolt action rifles.



AR-15 gas driven piston actions will likely suffer from "low gas pressure symptoms" when using low-for-accuracy cast bullets loads.

[elmacgyver0]

They will be able to miss more stuff at greater ranges.

[farmbif]

135grains at 3000 fps,
hmm maybe just me but good old fashioned 2520 with 150 grain bullets will shoot at 2900-to just about 3000fps in the 308 win/7.62 all day long without exceeding 62,000psi
I dont understand what's the benefit, ammo weight reduction? could be that much . sounds like a pretty complex process to make a pretty complex cartridge
or is this whole program just corporate socialism. like food stamps for sig sauer just a big money contract to try out something new.

[TNsailorman]

I don't know about the case. I was told it cannot be reloaded. Is this true, if so, I would not be the slightest interested in it. If I can't reload it, I ain't interested. my .02 anyway, james

[Oldfeller]

James, do please quote your sources, please. It is very helpful to those who care to look for themselves.

This is not caseless ammo, which resulted in the same stuff about no reloading that you are perhaps referring to.

[todd9.3x57]

they have the round already. they are experimenting on the rifle and the round, thats all. the Special Forces already have the 6.8 SPC, they done that years ago

Experimental Model = XM

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/2...y-demystified/ notice the date.

and

[376Steyr]

Is there some different primer technology associated with running at 80,000 PSI? I think current primers would crater and blow at that pressure. Are they just using extra-thick and tough primer cups?

[Mal Paso]

With all the ammo and gun manufacturers idle it's good give them something to do even if it's busy work.

[derek45]

pour me a big ol cup of NEVER GONNA HAPPEN

[TNsailorman]

The question I poised came as a result of an article sent to me by my brother and included a couple of short videos made by SIG to promote both the military version of the new Army contract rifle and a civilian version of the German Army rifle. One of the comments made was that the case for the cartridge was made of a "new" type of plastic and therefore would not be reloadable. I don't have the email now as since I could not reload the new cartridge, I had no interest in the rifle or ammo. As I said, if it is not reloadable, I am not interested in rifle or cartridge. james

[Oldfeller]

James,

What they are touting now has brass side walls and a steel head. And yes, we all remember other experimental rounds that were plastic walled that in essence allowed handling and belt feeding of something similar to a case-less load.

So yes, you remember correctly.

Reality ruled though, so a marginally reloadable brass sided round design was chosen as a finalist.

Why? Because us gun guys do vote in every election.

[MrHarmless]

... we all remember other experimental rounds that were plastic walled that in essence allowed handling and belt feeding of something similar to a case-less load.


Reality ruled though, so a marginally reloadable brass sided round design was chosen as a finalist.

Why? Because us gun guys do vote in every election.

It has less less to do about reloaders voting, and more to do with plastic cases not acting as an effective heat sink compared to brass. As a result, barrels heat up faster. It's a problem that will be solved eventually, but too radical a step for Big Green.

[charlie b]

This reminds me of the FN 'experiment' with the 5.7 and the P90.

[Texas by God]

Several years back Brian Pierce had a short article about Dick Casull's experiments with steel head/brass body cartridges and his deep recessed bolt face bolt action rifles that he designed for them. It was very interesting reading and the ballistics were above the normal for sure.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[todd9.3x57]

i remember in the 90s Remmy came out with an electrically fired rifle and "Elmer's glued" cartridges (the cartridge was some sorta glue and powder, no brass. i couldn't reload it, so a pass for me.

[charlie b]

And remember the caseless ammo experiments? The three lobe shaped thing with the bullet buried in the charge. And various case material, from plastic to various 'papers'.

[405grain]

Just another in the endless series of whizz-bang ammo inventions that will be "researched" but never adopted by the military. Honestly, do you really believe that all the countries in NATO are going to change over their ammunition production facilities and adopt something like this? That would require replacing all of their armaments, their ammunition stock piles, their supply streams, their training methods, etc. Doing all this for an increase in complexity with only a marginal increase in performance? Not going to happen. The future will more likely be magnetic rail guns or energetic beam weapons. It would have to be something that makes conventional ammunition as obsolete as a black powder muzzleloader.