Precussion Musket ID

[Leslie Sapp]

I noticed this leaning against a customer's fireplace. She inherited it from a relative, with no information as to provenance. I could not find any markings on it. Appears to be about .68 caliber.

Any help and guidance will be deeply appreciated.

[Battis]

Did you run a rod down the barrel to see if it's loaded? It does happen.

[Leslie Sapp]

I didn't check it, but did advise her of the possibility.

[Battis]

I was looking at a double barrel muzzle loading shotgun in a store and I checked with the ramrod - sure enough, one barrel had shot and powder in it.
How long is that musket?

[Leslie Sapp]

How long is that musket?

Don't know. Way longer that my 649 S&W.

[salpal48]

Look Like a Punt Gun for Waterfowl

[bedbugbilly]

Your photo is not very clear. A close up of the lock would be a big help. It is most likely a .69 cal. What were the markings on the lock plate?

[Leslie Sapp]

I don't have access to it right now. I looked it over pretty well in bright sunlight and couldn't find any markings.
I'll try to take another look next time I'm over there.
I'll get some better pictures, also.

I did quite a bit of research this morning with little result. I didn't expect it to be this hard to id it, or I'd have taken more pics when I had it in hand.

The lock and buttstock cheek rest design lead me to think English, or at least Western European in origin.

[1Hawkeye]

Without the markings its hard to say but I would guess its a percussion conversion of a U.S. model 1816 in .69 caliber.

[Leslie Sapp]

percussion conversion of a U.S. model 1816 in .69 caliber

I at first thought it might be a conversion, but flintlock conversions usually have a small insert where the pan was. There is no evidence of that here.

It sure looks a lot like an 1816 lock, though.

[Battis]

if you can remove the barrel from the stock, I'll bet you'll find markings (proof marks, etc) on the bottom of the barrel.

[1Hawkeye]

I at first thought it might be a conversion, but flintlock conversions usually have a small insert where the pan was. There is no evidence of that here.

It sure looks a lot like an 1816 lock, though.

It all depends who did the conversion. Some contractors and the arsenal did great work and some contractors did it on the cheap.

[Hanzy4200]

No way to tell without looking at markings. It will have proofs and other stamps somewhere. Probably obscured by patina and rust.

[jimb16]

On rare occasion, lock are marked on the inside of the plate. You might want to look there.

[toot]

yes it seems to be a real LONG TOM!

[Adam Helmer]

I agree it is probably an M1816 likes resides over my son's fireplace.

Adam

[TNsailorman]

I am not an expert on early rifle (1700-to 1840) but that does look like an early 1800's smoothbore or rifled musket. If it is an early 1800's, it probably did not start out as a percussion firearm. The percussin cap as we know it today was not developed until 1822. The history of percussion goes like this:
Reverend John Forsyth developed a "scent bottle" type of ignition in 1807 that did away with the flash thru a flash hole system. Then when Forsyth's patent expired, Joseh Manton developed a powder filled tube system that was crushed and fired the main charge. Shortly thereafter, Joseph Shaw, an English born American, improved and shortened the small cup cap into the percussion cap we know and use today. This was in 1822. So, the rifle/musket shown probably started out life as a flint lock rifle/musket and was later changed to a percussion system. Quite a few of the older rifle/muskets were changed in this way. It is a very interesting rifle and I am awaiting someone who really knows exactly what and when. james

[Deadeye Bly]

It appears to be earlier than the 1816 musket, possibly a 1795 or 1808 model. It was certainly made as a flintlock and has been converted to percussion. The conversion most likely was done by a private armory as the Gov't armories did not convert any muskets older than 1821.

[Leslie Sapp]

Better pics. I'm leaning towards a 1795. I posted these to another forum and that seemed to be the general consensus.

[Jeff Michel]

Committee of Safety musket, converted to percussion.