What to with a 6PPC?

[arlon]

I just got an older Winchester 70 rifle that was someones idea of a custom hunting rifle I THINK. It is really nicely done with a beautiful wood, trigger, metal work, heavy barrel, etc. I got it for a reasonable price so I've decided to try reloading the 6PPC. I have 6PPC dies and just ordered some 220 Russian brass. I figure someone here has done the 220 to PPC thing. I'm guessing this is a simple case of fire forming cases but when I read what the bench rest crowd does, I go a little pale. I really don't want to have to go through the full bench rest approach. Not going to be a bench rest gun. It will most likely end being set up with iron sights and shot on paper at 200 yards.

Any thoughts on simplifying the process appreciated. I do have 6mm PPC dies and have a Lyman 245496 mould if I want to try some lead in it.

Case neck measures .272 from a cerrosafe casting (1 hr cool down).
Barrel looks to be a 1:13ish twist.

[cwtebay]

I'm not sure if a true fire form and trim is possible. At least neck turning has been a must in my experience.
I should amend this - mine was a Remington Model 7, the chamber was T I G H T. I do understand that there is a "looser" reamed chamber that is more amenable to quick forming cases. I do agree that the BR crowd is definitely far more into the process than I was.
I sold it to a gentleman who used it to make a 20PPC.

[garandsrus]

I don’t know if the BR guys fire forming their 220 Russian brass or not. You might be able to just expand the brass with the 6 PPC dies. However, you do need to figure out what neck size your rifle is chambered for. Mine is stamped on the barrel. You may or. May not need to neck turn your brass. The BR buys have tight necks and definitely turn their brass.

Either way, once you get your brass set up, you can load them like any other rifle. Well, almost. The 220 Russian may have a small flash hole. If it does, your dies may stick the decapping rod in the brass. It’s easy enough to check off the press. You can either get a thinner decapping rod or ream the primer flash hole to fit the rod you have.

The 6 PPC is a fun cartridge to shoot. Very accurate and minimal recoil.

I have intended to try cast in it, but have not. I don’t think a .002 oversized bullet would chamber.

[cwtebay]

Thank you garandrus - I had forgotten about the pinhole flash hole. I reamed them with a torch tip cleaner after sticking the first several.
(I know the torch tip cleaner is super elegant, but I didn't have a flash hole uniformer that would fit!)

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[MostlyLeverGuns]

A Winchester 70 is probably not set up as a 'competitive' benchrest gun. The 6 PPC usually has a slow rate of twist (1-14?) so it should work with cast. If it does have a tight neck neck, a skilled smith could make the chamber more friendly for 'fun/casual' and cast shooting with a neck reamer, maybe a throater. I have seen 6mm PPC brass listed occasionally, Norma, maybe Lapua and others, finding it could be tricky. 7.62x39 could be used but it is work sizing down, neck reaming, fire-forming also.

[arlon]

I might get away without neck turning as the chamber cast after an hour the neck measured .272. It will be close but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that someone set this up as more hunting rifle than pure target rifle.

Tried a few 7.62x39 cases but that was a no go. I think it would take a few steps in a form die made for the purpose.

Definitely was not set up as a competition gun, still has the Winchester trigger with a few adjustments to lighten it up (too light for me). I'm just hoping for a pretty accurate rifle to set up with Palma type sights that I can reload fairly simply with the stuff I have on hand.

[country gent]

.272 should be comparable to a "factory" cartridge chamber. If memory serves me the 6ppc tight neck version was around .262-.267. If you can measure a factory 6 ppc round and compare to your .272 neck dimension if its .271 or less your good.

[stubshaft]

In the late 80's SAKO produced a 6mm PPC USA cartridge in a heavy barrel Vixen action. It was at the time the only factory rifle licensed and chambered for the PPC. It was designed with a .272" neck so that it did not need to be neck turned, and SAKO also produced brass and loaded cartridges for this rifle. It sounds like your model 70 might have the same style chamber.

There are, specific dies that were also produced to reload for this as the neck diameter was larger than what the BR crowd was using. That is not to say that the standard 6mmPPC dies will not work but they may overwork the brass. I have formed brass for my PPC from 7.62X39 and 6.5 Grendel brass. The 6.5 brass was a one and done deal with only a very slight change in it after fire-forming. The 7.62X39 brass was run through a Grendel die first to neck it down then through a FL PPC USA die to form, 14 grains of Unique with a tissue wad blows it out to fit the chamber perfectly. Truth be told, lately I have just bought Norma brass for this rifle and called it a day.

I will admit that although I have shot lead through the majority of my guns this one has not had one boolit down it's tube. I would imagine that the only reason to turn the neck would be to ensure that a loaded round will chamber.

[arlon]

In the late 80's SAKO produced a 6mm PPC USA cartridge in a heavy barrel Vixen action. It was at the time the only factory rifle licensed and chambered for the PPC. It was designed with a .272" neck so that it did not need to be neck turned, and SAKO also produced brass and loaded cartridges for this rifle. It sounds like your model 70 might have the same style chamber.

There are, specific dies that were also produced to reload for this as the neck diameter was larger than what the BR crowd was using. That is not to say that the standard 6mmPPC dies will not work but they may overwork the brass. I have formed brass for my PPC from 7.62X39 and 6.5 Grendel brass. The 6.5 brass was a one and done deal with only a very slight change in it after fire-forming. The 7.62X39 brass was run through a Grendel die first to neck it down then through a FL PPC USA die to form, 14 grains of Unique with a tissue wad blows it out to fit the chamber perfectly. Truth be told, lately I have just bought Norma brass for this rifle and called it a day.

I will admit that although I have shot lead through the majority of my guns this one has not had one boolit down it's tube. I would imagine that the only reason to turn the neck would be to ensure that a loaded round will chamber.

If I ran across SAKO like that it would have followed me home no matter what it took to shoot it! Have an old .222 Vixen, SAKO makes a nice rifle.

I'll have to look into that USA version of the cartridge further.
Glad to hear the SAKO has a .272 neck. Makes me feel better about this Winchester.

If I can just blow out the 220 Russian brass and use it, that just makes life way easier for my needs.

[stubshaft]

Should be easy enough to just expand to 6mm and fireform.

[samari46]

Well you could just rebarrel to 7.62x39 and be done with all that fooling around. Article in long gone magazine Precision Shooting where they took a Sako in 6PPC and rebarreled to 7.62x39 and found it shot very well. Frank

[arlon]

I got in my Lapua 220 Russian brass.

Necks opened very easily with the dies I have. No problem there.
Flash holes in the brass are too tight for the deprimer by just a fraction (can be forced in). I think that will be an easy one time fix with the proper drill bit.

Bullet seated and the neck now measures .272, exactly what the chamber cast measures. The test cartridge does chamber but with a bit of effort to close the bolt. It will not "plunk" into the chamber. I chucked the case in a drill and hit the neck with emory cloth just enough to bring it to a good shine. That was enough to get it to pass the plunk test easily. That was about 10 seconds on the drill. I THINK this will be fine for my purposes after a fire forming. I think the emory cloth on the neck will suffice instead of going to the trouble of trying to turn or ream necks to get about .001" more clearance.

Thanks for the input, all of it was useful.

And no, I would not spend as much for a rebarrel as I spent on the rifle just to save a little inconvenience. If it gets to a point where this doesn't work as well as I hope it does I might start to consider a rechamber of some sort.

[Hahndorf1874]

Ruger also did a factory 6 mmPPC mine shot non neck turned cases,should have kept it ,would loved to shoot cast in that cal. Cheers Mal in au.

[Rapier]

To not over pressure the brass you may need at least .002 to .003 space for neck expansion. The sizing die created neck tension for the .243 bullet with your measurement at .272 with a bullet seated. Rather than inside ream the neck, try outside turning so that you leave just a pencil lead thin solid line of unturned brass showing. That will probably get you about .001 to .0015 off per side.

[ebb]

There is no such thing as a factory 6PPC round, you may be thinking of a Sako 6PPC USA and it is not very close to what most BR smiths chamber to. I don't think they will chamber. If you don't want to spend the time to do it right (the BR way) you will not be satisfied with it and it will only be trouble.

[skeettx]

I agree, forget this project, send me the gun and I will shoot it for a few years to
insure you do not get taken.



Mike

[stubshaft]

I agree, forget this project, send me the gun and I will shoot it for a few years to
insure you do not get taken.



Mike

I may take you up on that. I've been stuck in the low 4's with a couple of 3's and an occasional .2. I may try something other than Noslers before I give up.

[ebb]

I shoot Berger 65s out of mine and when they changer to the new 65 column bullet I bought 3 or 4 boxes of the old discontinued bullets. My benchrest friend that had us to his range to shoot, passed away a few years ago. I haven't shoot it seriously since. I had 100rds of brass to fire form loaded and have done that. Maybe its time to shoot it again. Nothing shoots like a well tuned 6ppc, sounds like yours is that.

[MaLar]

You may be able to neck 6.5 Grendel down. I don't have drawings but the Grendel can be made from 7.62X39. And that's made from the 220 Russian.

[fixit]

If I'm remembering the dimensions correctly, the 6.5 grendel is basically a ppc expanded to .264, more or less. Both can be made from 7.62 x 39.