Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag.

[sixshot]

Wood can be a very good test medium for hard cast bullets, as can flesh. Took this Cape Buffalo last fall in South Africa using a Ruger bisley 45 using a 325 gr water quenched, powder coated bullet to knock it down with the first shot with an exit & then used a 308 gr water quenched, powder coated cast bullet to knock it down the second time as a finisher. The second bullet still weighed 308 grs when I weighed it back when I got home, it just flattened the nose a bit when it hit the off side shoulder. Velocity was 1355 fps from my 8.5" bisley.




I took several other animals with a 282 gr cast HP, Zebra, Kudu, Nyala. Used a FA 41 magnum on the Gemsbok.
Dick

[sharps4590]

Impressive.

[memtb]

Congrats! It’s pretty difficult to argue with success like that!

How many handgun hunters have you seen lined up with their 10mm’s for Africa’s Big Five? Asking for a friend! memtb

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Wow, great post there sixshot! Capstick said a Cape Buffalo looked at you like you owed it money.

[M-Tecs]

Congrats! It’s pretty difficult to argue with success like that!

How many handgun hunters have you seen lined up with their 10mm’s for Africa’s Big Five? Asking for a friend! memtb

[Catshooter]

Reading the OP, it seems to me that there's plenty of sucess with and without the big/bigger bores. Thirty eight special worked three for four? Wow. I never would have called that.

Interesting how many guys ignore facts. Thanks for the interesting data M-Tecs!

[Thumbcocker]

So which bear won the shoot out?

[Anchorite]

There were some guys out west years ago that did a simulation with a basketball rolling downhill as a bear target. Very interesting results were observed, as I recall. You can’t expect to get off multiple rounds at all, hence *a* conclusion was carry the biggest round you can shoot and hope for the best.

[memtb]

M-Tecs……lot of “stunt shooters” out there! I suspect that he may have chosen a different cartridge, had he not had a PH with a darn big rifle cartridge backing him up!

“Stunt Shooting” gets you lots of YouTube views. Of course, getting stomped into a small puddle would also get a lot of views! memtb

[M-Tecs]

M-Tecs……lot of “stunt shooters” out there! I suspect that he may have chosen a different cartridge, had he not had a PH with a darn big rifle cartridge backing him up!

“Stunt Shooting” gets you lots of YouTube views. Of course, getting stomped into a small puddle would also get a lot of views! memtb

If you hunt Africa you have a PH backing you up period. The point you asked for an example and I provided one. It got the job done..............as it has for several others accounts that I am aware of.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

An interesting fact, in many states dogs are the most likely animal to kill a human. Coyotes and cows too! In Alaska and Maine it is the Moose ( not sure if it is people running into them in their automobiles). Stinging insects and snakes as well. Black bears are mentioned frequently as well.

[sixshot]

I have seen the Razor Dobbs video before on Ruger Forum & I don't believe it was a stunt, I think he's a very fine shooter. What I've never figured out is how he did it legally, since you can't take a semi auto handgun into Africa. Only revolvers & even then many countries won't allow them! They have to be scoped & at least in South Africa have to have at least an 8" barrel. When I made my first safari several years ago you were allowed to take 3 handguns, now you can only take 2, either revolver or single shots. Also most probably know about famous Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker a few years ago killing a huge Brown bear that was trying to kill 2 of his fishing clients, he killed the bear with a 9mm! Not a good choice but that's all he was carrying. Also the world record Grizzly was taken with a 22 rimfire, I think by a woman in Alaska.

[M-Tecs]

I have seen the Razor Dobbs video before on Ruger Forum & I don't believe it was a stunt, I think he's a very fine shooter. What I've never figured out is how he did it legally, since you can't take a semi auto handgun into Africa. Only revolvers & even then many countries won't allow them! They have to be scoped & at least in South Africa have to have at least an 8" barrel. When I made my first safari several years ago you were allowed to take 3 handguns, now you can only take 2, either revolver or single shots. Also most probably know about famous Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker a few years ago killing a huge Brown bear that was trying to kill 2 of his fishing clients, he killed the bear with a 9mm! Not a good choice but that's all he was carrying. Also the world record Grizzly was taken with a 22 rimfire, I think by a woman in Alaska.

Like most gunfights the number 1 rule is to have a gun. In the actual accounts of handgun use against brown bears honestly I am surprised by how effective the lighter calibers have proven to be.

[memtb]

If you hunt Africa you have a PH backing you up period. The point you asked for an example and I provided one. It got the job done..............as it has for several others accounts that I am aware of.

Absolutely understand the guide requirement. Do you think if legal, he would hunt without back-up…..let’s say Brown’s in willows, African Lions, Cape Buff, ect. in “pucker brush”. Jussay’n! memtb

[M-Tecs]

Absolutely understand the guide requirement. Do you think if legal, he would hunt without back-up…..let’s say Brown’s in willows, African Lions, Cape Buff, ect. in “pucker brush”. Jussay’n! memtb

I perfer not to try to guess what other people might or might not do.

Per actual documented brown bear shootings the 10mm has accounted for itself well.
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/04/upd...-98-effective/

Here's one with a 357 https://www.fieldandstream.com/photo...caught-camera/

[pmer]

There were some guys out west years ago that did a simulation with a basketball rolling downhill as a bear target. Very interesting results were observed, as I recall. You can’t expect to get off multiple rounds at all, hence *a* conclusion was carry the biggest round you can shoot and hope for the best.

https://imgur.com/a/dJ0ZrMu

Here's a picture of my "bear". It's fun to blaze away at it but eventually you want to hit the thing... it makes you use your sights and wait till it's closer than you might think.
I have a saw horse and ramp with a rope that starts it moving. The frame has counter weights on the bottom to keep the target on top but at the start the frame swings back and forth.
It's not lite, it could take you out if it's coming straight for you!

[Cosmic_Charlie]

This is a much better comparison imho; https://youtu.be/ei5d_BkiwRA

[M-Tecs]

This is a much better comparison imho; https://youtu.be/ei5d_BkiwRA

Yes it is.

I will be spending about a month in Alaska this summer in prime bear county. I have a 460 S&W but it is too large and heavy for daily carry for what I am doing. I have 44 Mag and 45 Colt single and double actions if I want.

However I will be carrying a FN FNX 45 in 460 Rowland for bear defense. 15 plus 1 of mid-level 44 mag should get it done if needed. 250 grains at 1,300 fps for 16 shots is nothing to sneeze at. https://www.460rowland.com/shop/ammo...us-game-250gr/

I do plan on an actual Grizzly at the same location. If it's a spring hunt I will use my 375 H&H or my 416 Rigby. If it's a fall hunt archery is an option.

[Daekar]

So what I learned from the OP is that muzzle energy doesn't matter now, and that an 8-shot 357mag really can do everything.

23oz 44mag... why are so many writers total idiots?

[Markopolo]

This is a much better comparison imho; https://youtu.be/ei5d_BkiwRA

Way better comparison… and I agree with his end conclusion as well.