Then 5.8 grains is probably perfect. It cycles Perfectly and the brass drops anywhere from right at my feet to maybe 5 feet away max. The average brass casing drops probably 2 to 3 feet in back of me versus factory ammo that gets launched a good 15 feet into the right and rear. Like I stated earlier it recoils like my P85 MK11 9mm. It’s a very tame load that cycles. At least I can find my brass easily with this load. I think it would be impossible to do a double charge on it as the case would be overflowing. The powder is pretty bulky.