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Thread: When Did This Idea of a Rapture Come From?

  1. #161
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    We should all be concerned that we may LEAD more people to the savior, than we will DIRECT to the savior.
    Very true Thundar.

    Our well meaning "fire and brimstone" brothers often try to scare the lost out of hell but I don't believe we can scare many people about a hell they don't believe in. It has accurately been said that the wavering lost really don't care how much we know, they first want to know how much we care (about them). I believe we can better attract lost people to Jesus' beautiful heaven with compassion than with shouted alternative descriptions of Satan's horrible hell.
    Last edited by 1hole; 07-20-2022 at 10:49 AM.

  2. #162
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    The financial system to control the people of the entire world is being plugged in now in real time so if you're getting flown out of here it's going to have to happen pretty soon.

  3. #163
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    I'm old enough to need a blueprint.
    Luke 21 spells out pretty well what we're supposed to do whether it's a pretrib rapture or not.


  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Cheer View Post
    I'm old enough to need a blueprint.
    Luke 21 spells out pretty well what we're supposed to do whether it's a pretrib rapture or not.

    Blueprint indeed!
    I enjoy Matthew 24 where the disciples came to Christ and actually ask him for a detailed blueprint of Jesus's return (The Rapture) and the end of this world.


    I took the liberty of bolding some of the important verses of the Lord's details of his return.

    Verse 15 The abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet has to happen before the Lords return. (his words not mine) Anyone that has studied that knows that it happens at the mid point of the 7 year period.
    Verse 21 Great Tribulation not to be confused with God's wrath
    verse 22 References the Elect... Saved folks that have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ
    Verse 29 Immediately After the Tribulation of those days (roughly 31/2 years into Daniel's 70th week or 7 years) The Sun and Moon are darkened and the stars fall from the sky.

    Huge key point here. The Abomination of Desolation and Sun and Moon darkened, Stars falling from the sky are the events that have to happen (according to Jesus) before his return.
    No secret Rapture, Christ makes a point in verse #23 and verse #26 not to believe the secret Rapture false doctrine.




    Matthew 24:1-51 KJV

    1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

    2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

    3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

    5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

    7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

    10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

    11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

    12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

    13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

    24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    25 Behold, I have told you before.

    26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

    27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

    33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

    36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

    43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

    45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

    46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

    47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

    48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

    49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

    50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

    51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

  5. #165
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Well, the fig tree is alive and becoming Sodom and Egypt.
    Like Johnny Cash sang, it's going by the book.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alabama358 View Post
    [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]No secret Rapture, Christ makes a point in verse #23 and verse #26 not to believe the secret Rapture false doctrine.
    I'm puzzled: Paul's description of the sudden - "twinkling of an eye" - Rapture of Jesus' blood bought Bride of Christ/church is clearly prophesied (1 Cor 15:52). It is obviously coming so why do you think our Rapture up to the present heaven during the Tribulation is supposed to be a "secret" from the church?

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Cheer View Post
    And, from 2nd Thessalonians we know it happens after the son of perdition comes out of the closet.
    I've come to think that Christ's return happens after the two dead witnesses stand up in the city. That's going to be a big surprise and so will be
    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God as stated in 1st Thessalonians.
    You and I have drawn different conclusion. So be it.
    the trump of God...or the trumpet of God?????? in these modern times the difference is huge.....

  8. #168
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    Strong's G4536 - salpigx
    σάλπιγξ sálpinx, sal'-pinx; perhaps from G4535 (through the idea of quavering or reverberation); a trumpet:—trump(-et).

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    I'm puzzled: Paul's description of the sudden - "twinkling of an eye" - Rapture of Jesus' blood bought Bride of Christ/church is clearly prophesied (1 Cor 15:52). It is obviously coming so why do you think our Rapture up to the present heaven during the Tribulation is supposed to be a "secret" from the church?
    Well if your lucky enough to make it to the end you won't be "Puzzled" on that day.

    I am not sure if there is a coherent question in there or if you are just doing your typical straw-man argument thingy.

    You made a nice word salad...quoted a scripture and then ask why I thought the rapture was supposed to be a secret from the church. HUH???

    Didn't say that... what I did say is that the idea of a secret rapture is a false doctrine

    BTW... Do you think that the scripture that you quoted 1 Corinthians 15:52 is the same event Christ describes in Matthew 24: 1-51???

    Also, Do you think that the apostles (less Judas Iscariot) are part of the Church, the Bride?

    Very Curious to see if you can or will answer those two questions.

  10. #170
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    [QUOTE]=Alabama358;5447579]Well if your lucky enough to make it to the end you won't be "Puzzled" on that day.[quote]

    I'll be wherever Jesus is and "luck" will have nothing to do with it! You're the one I'm puzzled by, not the scriptures!

    ...quoted a scripture and then ask why I thought the rapture was supposed to be a secret from the church. HUH??? ... Didn't say that... what I did say is that the idea of a secret rapture is a false doctrine
    Well, it was you alone who put "Rapture" and "secret" together. I agree that the Rapture is no secret from anyone, it's clearly written in every copy of the Bible so it's only a "secret" from people who don't believe scripture. But I've never heard anyone but you call the Rapture a secret so I'm still puzzled about where that idea came from. ???

    BTW... Do you think that the scripture that you quoted 1 Corinthians 15:52 is the same event Christ describes in Matthew 24: 1-51???
    No, they are clearly not the same event.

    Also, Do you think that the apostles (less Judas Iscariot) are part of the Church, the Bride?
    They certainly are. The Church Age/Bride of Christ consists of those uniquely Spirit indwelt believers between Pentecost and the Rapture. The Lord's disciples were present when the Church Age started and they will still be there when eternity is finished... excepting Judas of course. But, like a lot of other pretenders through the interim, Judas never was a believer.

    Very Curious to see if you can or will answer those two questions.


    Now you know!


    (And now you have another current new's media buzz "word salad" but don't let it "circle back" and hit you in the butt again!
    Last edited by 1hole; 08-24-2022 at 09:33 AM.

  11. #171
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    This was so much fun listening to this morning while on a tollway through the wretched hive of corruption and villainy (had to drop people off at O'Hare) that I'm posting a link here for mutual enjoyment.
    https://www.trunews.com/stream/raptu...-once-or-twice

  12. #172
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alabama358 View Post
    Blueprint indeed!
    I enjoy Matthew 24 where the disciples came to Christ and actually ask him for a detailed blueprint of Jesus's return (The Rapture) and the end of this world.


    I took the liberty of bolding some of the important verses of the Lord's details of his return.

    Verse 15 The abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet has to happen before the Lords return. (his words not mine) Anyone that has studied that knows that it happens at the mid point of the 7 year period.
    Verse 21 Great Tribulation not to be confused with God's wrath
    verse 22 References the Elect... Saved folks that have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ
    Verse 29 Immediately After the Tribulation of those days (roughly 31/2 years into Daniel's 70th week or 7 years) The Sun and Moon are darkened and the stars fall from the sky.

    Huge key point here. The Abomination of Desolation and Sun and Moon darkened, Stars falling from the sky are the events that have to happen (according to Jesus) before his return.
    No secret Rapture, Christ makes a point in verse #23 and verse #26 not to believe the secret Rapture false doctrine.




    Matthew 24:1-51 KJV

    1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

    2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

    3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

    5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

    7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

    10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

    11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

    12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

    13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

    24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    25 Behold, I have told you before.

    26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

    27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

    33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

    36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

    43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

    45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

    46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

    47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

    48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

    49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

    50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

    51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    Question for anyone and everyone: Do you think #32 (fig tree) is 1948?

  13. #173
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    Can you Reconcile this?

    [QUOTE=1hole;5447785]



    No, they are clearly not the same event.



    They certainly are. The Church Age/Bride of Christ consists of those uniquely Spirit indwelt believers between Pentecost and the Rapture. The Lord's disciples were present when the Church Age started and they will still be there when eternity is finished...


    So just to be clear you think?.... Matthew 24:1-51 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 "Clearly not the same event"

    Ok, so let us try to reconcile this...

    The Church Age/Bride of Christ went to him and ask, tell us the details of your return...

    Matthew24:3
    And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately*, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    So Jesus gives them a detailed step by step - event by event list of things that have to happen before he returns to collect his Elect, Church Age Saints, Bride, Born again Folk (Somewhere about the middle of the 7 year period according to Christ reference to after we see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet)

    Matthew 24:31
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other*.

    So we are to believe that the Bride of Christ... The Church Age Saints sat down with the Lord himself and said tell us the details of your return...
    and Jesus gives them a detailed list of signs and events (Matthew 24:1-52) that would happen before he would be back to collect his saints from the four winds...
    But forgot to mention to his saints that all that he just explained really doesn't apply to them because he will be back (pre-Trib) 3 1/2 years earlier to rapture them
    Can you reconcile this???

    Also funny thing is that in

    1 Corinthians 15:52
    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    Matthew 24:31
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    If 1 Corinthians 15:52 happens 3 1/2 years earlier and is a completely different event and states "the last Trump" it seems to contradict Christ's version of events that happens when he returns and will "send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet"

    Unless of course they are the same event. (Spoiler alert... they are the same event)

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Cheer View Post
    Question for anyone and everyone: Do you think #32 (fig tree) is 1948?
    The Hebrews have been punished throughout history when they have fallen away and turned to disobedience and idol worship.

    In kind, GOD has restored and rewarded them when they repented and turned back to him.

    In 1948 they taught (and still do) that Jesus Christ is a false Prophet, a fraud and not the Son of GOD

    I am not sure that it was GOD rewarding them for their absolute and total wicked rebellion by restoring them to the promise land.

    Jesus said of the Pharisees

    John 8:44
    Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    John 14:6
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    So if the events in 1948 was of GOD... I don't think it was in the way of him rewarding their wickedness.

  15. #175
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    The good figs and the bad figs are still in existence so I guess I've never thought of it as being a matter of them coming back into the land as a reward. Indeed in the last times the people themselves turn Jerusalem into Sodom and Egypt, a process well advanced even now.

  16. #176
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    Paul said Christians are to study the Bible so they can rightly "divide the word of truth". Part of that right division is to grasp which scripture applies to where in history and that's rarely understood in reference to the Rapture and the second coming of the Lord.

    First, the Church age - i.e., the age of salvation by grace through faith includes a special indwelling of the Holy Spirit in a way that did not previously exist. The Church age had a beginning and it will have an end.

    The Holy Spirit indwelt, salvation by grace Church age began at the first Pentecost after Jesus' ascension. It will end when all Spirit indwelt believers are caught up and taken to heaven. Then Satan's evils are basically freed for the first half of the seven years of earthly Tribulation.

    Thus, the Rapture is not the second coming of the Lord! At the Rapture Jesus will only come down far enough to call us up to meet Him in the air. Then he'll then take us - the "Church, his blood bought Bride - back to his father's house for at least seven years of celebration and a spiritual marriage to our Lord. He (and we) will return to earth on white horses at the end of the Tribulation and before the establishment of his Millennial Kingdom on earth. Meaning the Rapture will be pretrib.

    God has progressively expanded the rules of life several times. Note that Adam would have had no idea of what "the Law of Moses" might mean, that came much later. If we try to jam multiple unrelated Bible events together as if they are a single event we will not only confuse ourselves we will immediately create weird contradictions that leaves much scripture hanging in the air.

    Rightly understood, every Christian should know Jesus came to earth during the age of the Law and he never said a word to anyone contrary to the Law. Jesus was a Jew who lived, worked, died, was buried and arose under the Jewish Law. His "signs of the times" words about his return to earth only apply to the people who remain after the Church age is over.

    The Rapture will be a surprise, there will be no warning. Fig tree signs only apply to those who come to faith after the Rapture, but before the Tribulation and His very distinct second coming to earth.

    If the Rapture were to come post trib it would not be a surprise because anyone paying attention to the fig tree's "signs of the times" could easily know when the Lord plans to return to earth (with his bride) because we're told he will come to stay seven years after the antichrist signs a lying "peace treaty" with Israel. (It's all in the Book! )

    I say, "Come quickly Lord Jesus!"
    Last edited by 1hole; 08-28-2022 at 11:02 AM.

  17. #177
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Good grief.

  18. #178
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    I just re-read Luke 21.

    Jesus tells many predictions to his disciples and also says:

    31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

    Generation definition: the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time.

    Hmmmm,....That generation is long gone and those predictions of Jesus have not occurred.
    1A - 2A = -1A

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    I just re-read Luke 21.

    Jesus tells many predictions to his disciples and also says:

    31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

    Generation definition: the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time.

    Hmmmm,....That generation is long gone and those predictions of Jesus have not occurred.

    I hope you didn't pay for that definition of Generation, because if you did you need to get your money refunded.
    Just curious, Where did you get that definition as it pertains to verse 32? Do you have any scripture tied to it

    What Christ was saying is "this generation shall not pass away" He is referencing the generation that sees all of the signs that he just listed... ie. the abomination of desolation, the Sun and Moon being darkened, stars falling from the sky etc.
    Not the saints he was preaching to but the future saints that will see the signs that he just prophesied about.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Paul said Christians are to study the Bible so they can rightly "divide the word of truth". Part of that right division is to grasp which scripture applies to where in history and that's rarely understood in reference to the Rapture and the second coming of the Lord. A very weak argument that folks pushing a false doctrine use when they have no solid scripture to back up their position.

    First, the Church age - i.e., the age of salvation by grace through faith includes a special indwelling of the Holy Spirit in a way that did not previously exist. The Church age had a beginning and it will have an end.

    The Holy Spirit indwelt, salvation by grace Church age began at the first Pentecost after Jesus' ascension. It will end when all Spirit indwelt believers are caught up and taken to heaven. Then Satan's evils are basically freed for the first half of the seven years of earthly Tribulation. So you are saying that Satan's evils are only freed for the first half of the 7 years, so where is he for the 2nd half? Book, Chapter and verse please?

    Thus, the Rapture is not the second coming of the Lord! At the Rapture Jesus will only come down far enough to call us up to meet Him in the air. Then he'll then take us - the "Church, his blood bought Bride - back to his father's house for at least seven years of celebration and a spiritual marriage to our Lord. He (and we) will return to earth on white horses at the end of the Tribulation and before the establishment of his Millennial Kingdom on earth. Meaning the Rapture will be pretrib. DO you just make this stuff up? Where in the Bible does it specifically say!!we are taken up for AT LEAST A SEVEN YEAR CELEBRATION. HILARIOUS!! Book, Chapter and verse please?

    God has progressively expanded the rules of life several times. Note that Adam would have had no idea of what "the Law of Moses" might mean, that came much later. If we try to jam multiple unrelated Bible events together as if they are a single event we will not only confuse ourselves we will immediately create weird contradictions that leaves much scripture hanging in the air.

    Rightly understood, every Christian should know Jesus came to earth during the age of the Law and he never said a word to anyone contrary to the Law. Jesus was a Jew who lived, worked, died, was buried and arose under the Jewish Law. His "signs of the times" words about his return to earth only apply to the people who remain after the Church age is over. Lived under the Law??? He created the Law and fulfilled the Law. Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    His "signs of the times" words about his return to earth only apply to the people who remain after the Church age is over Book, Chapter and verse please?

    The Rapture will be a surprise, there will be no warning. Fig tree signs only apply to those who come to faith after the Rapture, but before the Tribulation and His very distinct second coming to earth. Book, Chapter and verse please?

    If the Rapture were to come post trib it would not be a surprise because anyone paying attention to the fig tree's "signs of the times" could easily know when the Lord plans to return to earth (with his bride) because we're told he will come to stay seven years after the antichrist signs a lying "peace treaty" with Israel. (It's all in the Book! ) As Paul said, it will be a surprise to the children of the darkness but not to the children of the light.
    1 Thessalonians 5: 4-5
    4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

    Yup, all in the Book


    I say, "Come quickly Lord Jesus!"
    All that wisdom with not a single scripture.
    Lets try it again -

    1 You say the saints will be rapture pretrib before the 7 years (no scripture stated to back up this position)

    2 Christ says he will be back to collect his saints from the 4 winds at the half way point of the 7 years
    Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

    3 Christ returns on a white horse with his saints to set up his 1000 year rule

    So you think there will be 3 times the Lord comes?
    1- Pre-trib,
    2- Mid-trib(Christ Prophesy in Matthew 24:15)
    3- 2nd Coming, end of 7 year period when Christ returns on a white horse with his saints to set up his kingdom

    Also... will your pretrib rapture happen with all of the remarkable Signs as Christ describes his mid-trib return to collect his saints? Sun and Moon darkened, stars falling from the sky, lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; etc

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