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Thread: When Did This Idea of a Rapture Come From?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    When Did This Idea of a Rapture Come From?

    When did certain Christian sects start to believe and teach rapture doctrine?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


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    1 Thessalonians 4:17 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the LORD in the air. And so we will be with the LORD forever.

    I believe the authorship of that letter is attributed to the Apostle Paul.
    Micah 6:8
    He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

    "I don't have hobbies - I'm developing a robust post-apocalyptic skill set"
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Correct.

    Untranslated "rapture" in the original Greek simply means "caught-up". It's why meat eating birds are called raptors, they catch up their prey.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    So is God and Jesus coming down to dwell with man on an earth that's been made new, or coming to take Christians away to somewhere else?

    About that word. Have you bothered to look at all the other scriptures where this word is used. It appears that a better translation of this word to English would be "taken by force". Caught up, simply won't work in most of the other context where it's used. Our sovereign King has the power to take the dead from the grave and make them alive again, does he not?

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    From what I have seen of the tinfoil hats I am related to, they are waiting for the second coming of Trump or Jesus, I'm not sure which and they are confused by the interbabble of wonderful stuff.
    Beware of manmade "stumblingblocks".

    I ask them. "What are you doing?" No really. The flickering screen is no help.
    "What are you doing to prepare for His Coming?"

    My Savior said He would be right back. And soon.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    So is God and Jesus coming down to dwell with man on an earth that's been made new, or coming to take Christians away to somewhere else?
    God the Father, God the Son of God and God the Holy Spirit are infinient spirits indeed, i.e., they don't have physical bodies and they are not limited to time or space so they're here, there and everywhere all the time. Of the Trinity, only Jesus, the son of man has a visible body. We will surely see Jesus after the rapture but I don't think we will ever "see" the father or the Holy Spirit - our eyes just aren't big enough for that!

    About that word. Have you bothered to look at all the other scriptures where this word is used. It appears that a better translation of this word to English would be "taken by force".
    I'm not going to do a concordance search of the rest of scripture to test your premise. But, at least on the surface, it seems that any instant snatching up of rabbits, mice, fish, living and dead people's bodies, etc., by an airborne raptor is of necessity accomplished by an overpowering force. If that's so, you may be drawing out a word distinction that doesn't make any difference. ???
    Last edited by 1hole; 04-10-2022 at 03:54 PM.

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    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    When you read scripture remember to examine the subject and the object, closely examining what is being said for context as well as the meanings of the words.

    For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    When? Then.
    Nobody will have to wonder about this. The whole world is gonna know it's Him.

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    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Good Cheer Nailed it. We will all know when it happens. Be ready!
    I truly believe we need to get back to basics.

    Get right with the Lord.
    Get back to the land.
    Get back to thinking like our forefathers thought.


    May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make His face to shine upon you and be gracious unto you
    and give you His peace. Let all of the earth – all of His creation – worship and praise His name! Make His
    praise glorious!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    When did certain Christian sects start to believe and teach rapture doctrine?
    Thunder, getting back to your original question, Paul had obviously taught the Thessalonians about the Rapture and probably other end times doctrines as well. They had clearly misunderstood parts of it so Paul wrote a letter to correct and reassure them. That means teaching about the coming Rapture goes pretty far back in the Church.

    * Just a thought; Paul's written pages were not his own, everything he wrote was inspired by a very reliable source. Therefore, I don't believe your term "certain Christian sects" properly applies to the early Christians who taught and correctly followed scripture as best they could, including the Rapture prophecies. ???

  10. #10
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    “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father” (Matthew 24:26).

    Not sure about when or how it will happen-as long as it happens!
    The unexamined life is not worth living....Socrates
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  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHawk View Post
    Good Cheer Nailed it. We will all know when it happens. Be ready!
    Yeah, noisy, spectacular, permanent, done and over.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    1 John 3:2 New King James Version
    Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

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    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Thunder, getting back to your original question, Paul had obviously taught the Thessalonians about the Rapture and probably other end times doctrines as well. They had clearly misunderstood parts of it so Paul wrote a letter to correct and reassure them. That means teaching about the coming Rapture goes pretty far back in the Church.

    * Just a thought; Paul's written pages were not his own, everything he wrote was inspired by a very reliable source. Therefore, I don't believe your term "certain Christian sects" properly applies to the early Christians who taught and correctly followed scripture as best they could, including the Rapture prophecies. ???
    Well, it wasn't taught in any churches until about 1820 or so, and many Christian churches still don't teach a rapture where we'll be taken away from the earth to dwell in heaven (another place).

    Someone mentioned context. There is (context) 4 verses, or so, in front of and after, (Context) how the word is used in that letter, by that author, and (CONTEXT) how that word or paraphrase is used in ALL of scripture. This is why I brought up looking at how a word is used in other scriptures in the original language text (English versions are translated and transliterated verse).

    I personally don't see Revelation as a road map of the end of days. Let's not forget that these "books" are all letters written to someone else, that we are listening (looking) in on. I don't see these "end time" theologies as having anything what so ever to do with salvation, and sometimes wonder why we even spend time mulling them over.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    Well, it [the rapture?] wasn't taught in any churches until about 1820 or ....
    Say what! Do you really reject as a fact that Paul himself taught the Thessilions about the rapture somewhere in the early second century AD? Or are you saying the rapture and other end-times doctrines don't matter to you therefore it shouldn't matter to anyone else? Goodness my friend .... that's a BIG step!

    ...and many Christian churches still don't teach a rapture where we'll be taken away from the earth to dwell in heaven (another place).
    Well, except as a pleasant holding place awaiting the millennial Kingdom, I don't accept that either. The present spiritual Paradise is a only place for us to dwell until the time of the new heaven on the rebuilt to original specifications on earth begins.

    Someone mentioned context. There is (context) 4 verses, or so, in front of and after, (Context) how the word is used in that letter, by that author, and (CONTEXT) how that word or paraphrase is used in ALL of scripture. This is why I brought up looking at how a word is used in other scriptures in the original language text (English versions are translated and transliterated verse).
    The only context at issue here is what the message of the rapture means, not who it was originally written to. Man, if we rejected parts of the Bible as irrelevant today because its "context" wasn't specifically named for Americans in the 21st Century there wouldn't be much left!

    I personally don't see Revelation as a road map of the end of days. Let's not forget that these "books" are all letters written to someone else, that we are listening (looking) in on.

    I don't see these "end time" theologies as having anything what so ever to do with salvation, and sometimes wonder why we even spend time mulling them over.
    Okay, that's your point of view. But, what other parts of God's big Book do you suggest we ignore because the information doesn't directly impact salvation? (And I'll mention that the doctrine of salvation is only the starting point, i.e., the baby's milk of the Bible.)

    Salvation is easy to understand; it's so simple that kids can get it. It doesn't really require a lot of study by long-time Christians - people who often haven't gotten passed the spiritual infant stage to know all we need to know about salvation.

    Seems pew sitting for years while carefully listening to a steady diet of the simple basic doctrine - the baby's milk of the Christian faith - Sunday after Sunday can't be expected to advance the spiritual growth of the Body of Christ ... and surely you would agree that our churches do seem to have a lot of very old but still baby Christians! (Read 1 Cor 3:1-3 and Heb 5:13-14. Read in context of course ... maybe it wasn't meant for anyone but the Corinthians and Hebrews? )

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    "Say what! Do you really reject as a fact that Paul himself taught the Thessilions about the rapture somewhere in the early second century AD?"

    If you are asking about pretrib then yeah, by what scripture says I've found the theory to be untenable along with the notion that Paul was teaching it.

    People who want to resolve the matter in their own minds have much to wade through if they consider the published works of proponents and detractors of the theory. For those interested in further research much has been published on investigative works concerning the early 19th Century proponents of the idea, how it was thereafter propagated in Britain and North America, who put up the money along with the political purposes behind it and where in what portions of the world the theory has gained dominance. As with most things political the truth just doesn't cut it so be prepared to find all sides doing a taffy pull on reality.

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    Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God which worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure. —Philippians 2:12-13
    The unexamined life is not worth living....Socrates
    Pain, is just weakness leaving the body....USMC
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  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Cheer View Post
    If you are asking about pretrib then yeah, by what scripture says I've found the theory to be untenable along with the notion that Paul was teaching it.
    The issue here is the Rapture, not if it will occur pre, mid or post Trib. All we need to know about the timing is to read the scriptures as if they are true as stated. It not a contest of logic or other books or "I believe this and you (wrongly) believe that". Only what God says matters and his Book is where we find that.

    Scripture says the Rapture will happen suddenly and without warning; that would not be the case if it were to occur at mid or post Trib. The Trib itself it would be an obvious warning of what's coming next if the Rapture should happen mid or post Trib. Therefore, pre Trib is the only possible "Surprise!" answer and it matters not what I may think it should be.

    Bottom line; the Rapture is not a recent concept, it comes directly from New Testament scripture, the same as salvation by faith and not works, and it did NOT start in 1820.

    It's a fact that the Rapture will occur suddenly and without warning, therefore it has to occur pre Trib. (Mat 24:44) ???

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    The issue here is the Rapture, not if it will occur pre, mid or post Trib. All we need to know about the timing is to read the scriptures as if they are true as stated. It not a contest of logic or other books or "I believe this and you (wrongly) believe that". Only what God says matters and his Book is where we find that.

    Scripture says the Rapture will happen suddenly and without warning; that would not be the case if it were to occur at mid or post Trib. The Trib itself it would be an obvious warning of what's coming next if the Rapture should happen mid or post Trib. Therefore, pre Trib is the only possible "Surprise!" answer and it matters not what I may think it should be.

    Bottom line; the Rapture is not a recent concept, it comes directly from New Testament scripture, the same as salvation by faith and not works, and it did NOT start in 1820.

    It's a fact that the Rapture will occur suddenly and without warning, therefore it has to occur pre Trib. (Mat 24:44) ???
    And, from 2nd Thessalonians we know it happens after the son of perdition comes out of the closet.
    I've come to think that Christ's return happens after the two dead witnesses stand up in the city. That's going to be a big surprise and so will be
    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God as stated in 1st Thessalonians.
    You and I have drawn different conclusion. So be it.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    "pre, mid or post Trib"

    If you don't know the Who, then the what, when & how is not going to help you and if you do know the Who (Jesus) then you can have peace beyond understanding.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Cheer View Post
    And, from 2nd Thessalonians we know it happens after the son of perdition comes out of the closet.
    I'm trying to understand how you seem to see a direct connection from the SURPRISE! Rapture to be simultaneous with and following the start of the Tribulation period. I see no reason to believe the Rapture won't occur well before the rise of the A.C.

    Consider this: Unlike God, Satan alone can't do much with his own power. The A.C is now constrained by the Holy Spirit indwelling the body of the Church; he cannot begin his evil until that restraint (us!) is removed (Raptured). Even then the beast with his master's help will need some significant amount of time to organise and set his plans into motion.

    Thus, it seems probable that the appearance and political rise of Antichrist cannot realistically occur until well after the Rapture! So, IMHO, only a pre-Trib Rapture fits all the pieces together seamlessly.

    We will know who the A.C. is when he actually comes "out of the closet" with world authority to sign a lying 7 year "peace treaty" with Israel. On that treaty signing day, (probably a few years after the Rapture), the first day of Tribulation begins. Humanly speaking, the political power to make such a treaty like that simply can't happen instantly!

    I suspect it will be 2-4 years after the rapture before Satan's sneaky snake "beast" can gain that level of world authority.
    Last edited by 1hole; 04-17-2022 at 03:39 PM.

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