Quick Load Data

[71/84Mauser]

Attachment 298801

[71/84Mauser]

For J words I have been staging down .458” rounds.

Several steps in an ol reliable RCBS Rock Chucker.

.452”

.448”

.446”

.444” - because I found there is .002” spring back with J word’s

[charlie b]

What a great project, and, a beautiful rifle. The QD mounts are great as well.

[Texas by God]

Thank you for the pics, what an intriguing beauty. And welcome to the forum. I once had a reprint of a Mauser catalog and I seem to remember that cartridge being an option.
Nevertheless, neat!

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[71/84Mauser]

Range report. Seems like I’m getting things dialed in. Thank you to everyone with the Quick Load Data!

[71/84Mauser]

Not sure what happened with shots #1 and #4. Most likely it was me.

[P Flados]

Thank you I did try some duplex loads today.


WC872 66gr + 3gr Kicker of WWII German 8mm powder I have laying around. Got avg bel of 1,536fps for 11 shot string.

Maybe 5 unburied kernels at the end of the 11 shots. Otherwise it shot clean to me.

With QL predicting only 1450 fps at 112% fill, your kicker seems to given you a nice boost in speed

Given how much powder this cartridge consumes, being able to use WC 872 brings the cost per round way down.

And yes, thanks for all the photos and the report on how it shot.

[P Flados]

Range report. Seems like I’m getting things dialed in. Thank you to everyone with the Quick Load Data!

Your 3031 load looks to shoot nice. I went ahead and ran a 3031 specific QL table for your "custom" 400 gr J Word (I was wondering where you found some and then you fessed up on doing it the hard way). It looks like you are getting approx 100 fps more velocity than QL predicted. Likely causes are typically either a hot batch of powder, or a case capacity that is less than what QL has loaded by default.

If you take a fired case, put it on a digital scale, tare the scale and then fill it with water and weigh it again you can get the case capacity in grains of water. QL is using 89 grains for a case that is 2.370" long.

Cartridge          : 11.2 x 60 Mauser/Schueler
Bullet             : 0.446 x 1.005” sized J Word
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.875 inch = 73.03 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 3031

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.058% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.6   78    46.50   1743    2699   22394   3687     94.5    1.977
-09.5   78    47.05   1762    2758   23014   3734     94.9    1.954
-08.5   79    47.60   1781    2816   23652   3780     95.4    1.931
-07.4   80    48.15   1799    2875   24309   3825     95.8    1.908
-06.3   81    48.70   1818    2935   24982   3869     96.2    1.886
-05.3   82    49.25   1836    2995   25676   3911     96.5    1.864
-04.2   83    49.80   1855    3055   26388   3953     96.9    1.842
-03.2   84    50.35   1873    3116   27121   3993     97.2    1.821
-02.1   85    50.90   1891    3177   27875   4032     97.5    1.800
-01.1   86    51.45   1910    3239   28649   4070     97.8    1.779
+00.0   87    52.00   1928    3301   29446   4106     98.1    1.759
+01.1   88    52.55   1946    3364   30266   4141     98.4    1.739
+02.1   89    53.10   1964    3426   31109   4175     98.6    1.719  ! Near Maximum !
+03.2   89    53.65   1982    3489   31975   4207     98.8    1.699  ! Near Maximum !
+04.2   90    54.20   2000    3553   32867   4238     99.0    1.680  ! Near Maximum !
+05.3   91    54.75   2018    3617   33783   4268     99.2    1.661  ! Near Maximum !

[71/84Mauser]

I am currently using two types of brass:

1) RCC custom brass
- empty weight
-254gr
- water weight
- 84.5gr

2) various Magnum brass with the belts removed and the case head cut down
- empty weight
- 227gr
- water weight
- 85.4 ( no that’s not a type-o the last two numbers are supposed to be flipped from the above brass)

They are cut to a case length of 2.385”

I use the RCC brass for the J Word bullets

I use the cut down brass for the Boolits.

I also have the Magneto Speed bayonet chrono so it gets the velocity right at the muzzle. Perhaps that’s another reason?

[71/84Mauser]

P Flados,

I am also getting some 500gr J words from Hawk soon. Once they arrive and I can get the length for you do you think you could do me another run on your QL software? For subsonic as well as super sonic loads. I would like to use the 500gr with my suppressor just because…. Why not. Haha

[P Flados]

I loaded your numbers for the custom brass and velocity increased up to 1973 for the reference load (half way to your values). QL is predicting muzzle velocity, so your numbers do not need any adjusting.

For now, just expect that you will get the pressures and velocities for a charge that is 1.5 gr higher than what you use. This actually puts you just over the QL listed max pressure. This is probably overly conservative for pressure prediction but it would take some fancy equipment to find out for real.

Cartridge          : 11.2 x 60 Mauser/Schueler
Bullet             : 0.446 x 1.009 - 400 sized J Word
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.875 inch = 73.03 mm
Case length / capacity:  2.385" / 84.5 gr water
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 3031

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge, incremented in steps.

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-09.8   83    46.00   1764    2765   24235   3618     94.8    1.916
-08.8   84    46.50   1782    2820   24882   3660     95.2    1.894
-07.8   85    47.00   1800    2876   25546   3700     95.6    1.873
-06.9   85    47.50   1817    2933   26227   3739     96.0    1.852
-05.9   86    48.00   1835    2989   26928   3777     96.4    1.831
-04.9   87    48.50   1852    3047   27648   3814     96.7    1.811
-03.9   88    49.00   1869    3104   28388   3850     97.0    1.791
-02.9   89    49.50   1887    3162   29149   3885     97.4    1.771
-02.0   90    50.00   1904    3220   29930   3919     97.6    1.751
-01.0   91    50.50   1921    3279   30733   3951     97.9    1.732
+00.0   92    51.00   1939    3338   31560   3983     98.2    1.713  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   93    51.50   1956    3398   32408   4013     98.4    1.694  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0   94    52.00   1973    3457   33281   4042     98.6    1.675  ! Near Maximum !
+02.9   94    52.50   1990    3517   34179   4070     98.8    1.657  ! Near Maximum !
+03.9   95    53.00   2007    3578   35101   4097     99.0    1.639  ! Near Maximum !
+04.9   96    53.50   2024    3638   36051   4122     99.2    1.621    ! Over Maximum !

[71/84Mauser]

Thank you!

The pressure is not too much of a concern with me as the action can take way more than 45K even with the large diameter boolits and the smaller, proportionate to boolit size, bolt face. I think it’s references as bolt thrust or something like that I have it written down in one of my notebooks somewhere here….

[P Flados]

There are actually 3 considerations. Bolt thrust is usually limiting, but you can run into trouble with hoop stress if your barrel wall is not thick enough. Some guns are limited by breech face yield strength (single shot rifles with shotgun based receivers for example).

Bolt thrust is based on case ID and can be tricky. However, a simple evaluation would look as follows.

Lets assume the case ID near the base is 0.045" less than the OD and not credit brass friction in the chamber (well lubricated case, smooth camber). Lets say your action is good for the 270 Winchester that is rated for 65000 psi. Your base OD is 0.516" (I think), the 270 base is 470". The ratio of ID areas is 1.23. Using the above numbers, your gun will see the same bolt thrust at 53000 psi as the 270 does at 65000 psi.

Note that QL predicts around 2250 fps from a 400 gr with 3031 or 4895 if you stuff the case full enough to reach 53000 psi. A 400 gr at 2050 fps sounds like a shoulder beater. I doubt that I would have any interest in pushing further.

[71/84Mauser]

There are actually 3 considerations. Bolt thrust is usually limiting, but you can run into trouble with hoop stress if your barrel wall is not thick enough. Some guns are limited by breech face yield strength (single shot rifles with shotgun based receivers for example).

Bolt thrust is based on case ID and can be tricky. However, a simple evaluation would look as follows.

Lets assume the case ID near the base is 0.045" less than the OD and not credit brass friction in the chamber (well lubricated case, smooth camber). Lets say your action is good for the 270 Winchester that is rated for 65000 psi. Your base OD is 0.516" (I think), the 270 base is 470". The ratio of ID areas is 1.23. Using the above numbers, your gun will see the same bolt thrust at 53000 psi as the 270 does at 65000 psi.

Note that QL predicts around 2250 fps from a 400 gr with 3031 or 4895 if you stuff the case full enough to reach 53000 psi. A 400 gr at 2050 fps sounds like a shoulder beater. I doubt that I would have any interest in pushing further.

That is great information! I never had the formula before. I will have to bookmark this.

I have ZERO interest in getting a 400gr projectile up to 2200fps. I am not a speed addict, slow and accurate works just fine for me.
I am more interested in keeping my rifle in 1 piece and not pushing things to the razors edge.

I will most likely shoot many thousands more of the Boolits compared to the J words out of this rifle.

You have truly been very helpful and a pleasure to meet thank you for all the information I greatly appreciate it!

[71/84Mauser]

500gr J words showed up they are 1.355” long.

I have lots of powders to choose from more than what was listed earlier. Pistol shotgun and rifle powder, however I only have 50 projectiles to work with so I can’t waste too many looking for a nice load combo.

Do you think you can run QL numbers for me on subsonic, around 1050fps, as well as super sonic loads around 35-40K psi?

[P Flados]

You did not list COAL, and the bullet length may change when sized down.

I ran some numbers anyway.

Cartridge          : 11.2 x 60 Mauser/Schueler
Bullet             : .446 x 1.355 sized 500 gr J Word
Case length / capacity:  2.385" / 84.5 gr water
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.975 inch = 75.57 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges Matching Maximum Pressure: 35000 psi, or 241 MPa

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 3031                            94.2     44.5     2.88    1724    99.7    35000    3407   1.858  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                            93.3     47.1     3.05    1710    94.6    35000    3631   1.877  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        99.1     52.9     3.43    1696    87.2    35000    3710   1.873  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064                            95.7     45.6     2.96    1655    93.5    35000    3308   1.905  ! Near Maximum !

Cartridge          : 11.2 x 60 Mauser/Schueler
Bullet             : .446 x 1.355 sized 500 gr J Word
Case length / capacity:  2.385" / 84.5 gr water
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.975 inch = 75.57 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges Matching Muzzle Velocity: 1050 fps

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 4895                            54.9     27.8     1.80    1050    70.2    11134    1782   3.137
IMR 4064                            57.8     27.6     1.79    1050    71.1    11802    1698   3.014
Alliant 2400                        32.4     15.6     1.01    1050    99.8    13489    1362   3.003
Hodgdon H414                        60.5     32.3     2.10    1050    60.6    11280    1729   3.076
IMR 3031                            53.6     25.3     1.64    1050    78.4    10708    1770   3.061

[71/84Mauser]

Great thank you very much!

I just purchased QL hoping it arrives from Germany quick so I can stop bugging you!

Hopefully my last request,
With the subsonic loads it looks like the fill ratio of the powders seem a little low to me. Is there a way to show all powders to see which other ones I can use? Or do you need a specific list from me?

[P Flados]

For subsonic in a big case, low fill ratio is a given.

Trying to maximize fill usually ends up running powders at pressures way below where they work good.

Ignoring fill percent and going for an easy to ignite faster powder that gets a mid-range chamber pressure sounds like a better option.

Here are faster powders for subsonic 500 gr loads

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RED DOT                     48.1     12.1     0.78    1050   100.0    28547     920   2.592
Hodgdon Universal                   39.0     12.7     0.82    1050   100.0    24837     940   2.674
Maxam CSB 4                         44.9     12.8     0.83    1050   100.0    28038     907   2.586
Hodgdon Clays                       52.4     12.6     0.82    1050   100.0    31882     895   2.530  ! Near Maximum !
Maxam CSB 5                         46.4     12.7     0.83    1050   100.0    30313     896   2.554
Maxam CSB 3                         44.9     13.1     0.85    1050   100.0    27129     906   2.602
Winchester WAP                      31.1     13.7     0.89    1050   100.0    21122     973   2.729
Ramshot Silhouette                  31.1     13.7     0.89    1050   100.0    21247     972   2.727
Alliant UNIQUE                      37.8     12.3     0.80    1050   100.0    21697     971   2.745
Maxam CSB 2                         43.2     13.3     0.86    1050   100.0    26813     905   2.631
Vihtavuori N310                     42.3     12.4     0.81    1050   100.0    32043     878   2.534  ! Near Maximum !
Norma R1                            52.5     13.4     0.87    1050   100.0    30553     903   2.563
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star            67.2     16.9     1.10    1050   100.0    32318     863   2.542  ! Near Maximum !
IMR TrailBoss                       99.4     16.9     1.10    1050   100.0    30872     874   2.556  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.2                       37.7     12.6     0.82    1050   100.0    22119     959   2.727
Accurate Solo 1250                  43.7     13.2     0.85    1050   100.0    25657     915   2.627
Lovex S011                          37.7     12.9     0.84    1050   100.0    26615     912   2.613
Lovex S020                          37.3     13.1     0.85    1050   100.0    23909     931   2.673
Lovex S035                          43.2     13.6     0.88    1050   100.0    22416     942   2.707
Lovex S030                          37.4     13.2     0.85    1050   100.0    23490     935   2.684
Vihtavuori N350                     37.3     13.7     0.89    1050   100.0    19636     988   2.770
Vihtavuori N330                     39.6     13.1     0.85    1050   100.0    25512     921   2.643
Vihtavuori N340                     39.4     13.2     0.85    1050   100.0    22963     941   2.689
Vihtavuori N320                     43.1     12.8     0.83    1050   100.0    28268     898   2.592
Maxam CSB 1                         46.2     13.7     0.89    1050   100.0    26083     895   2.621
Vihtavuori 3N37                     35.4     13.8     0.89    1050   100.0    19285     998   2.786
Ramshot Zip                         31.6     13.4     0.87    1050   100.0    25840     923   2.630
Winchester 231                      35.2     13.4     0.87    1050   100.0    25840     923   2.630
Hodgdon HP38                        31.7     13.4     0.87    1050   100.0    26251     919   2.622
Hodgdon TiteGroup                   32.3     13.3     0.86    1050   100.0    28675     905   2.582

[71/84Mauser]

Once again thank you very much! I will let you know how the field tests turn out once I have a free day to get to the range!

[71/84Mauser]

Incase anyone is still paying attention to this thread, here is another range report. I haven’t had much free time lately and finally was able to sneak away quickly to shoot a 10 Shot group.