RCBS .44-250-K vs .44-250-KT

[Onty]

I would like to offer, if anyone would like a few examples for comparison, of the bullets I have access to, I am glad to offer.

I would suggest to snap nice pictures of bullets you have, same way 44MAG#1 did. Please make sure that picture is sharp and resolution high, so we can see details.

[Bazoo]

I would suggest to snap nice pictures of bullets you have, same way 44MAG#1 did. Please make sure that picture is sharp and resolution high, so we can see details.

I did just that, on the first page.

[Onty]

I did just that, on the first page.

Thanks! However, I was hoping that you could make picture parallel with axis, and closer, so profile of front driving bands (rounded or sharp), and bottoms of crimp groove would be clearly visible.

[Bazoo]

I’ll see what I can do.

[Bazoo]

Rcbs 44-240-swc 44-245-swc 44-250-k


The light wasn’t the best when I got to it. I’ll see if I can get better tomorrow.

[dogdoc]

Dec 2013 Handloader magazine has Pearces article on the the original Keith mould sent to a guy in Alaska at Keith’s request . It has good pictures of bullets cast from that single cavity mould. He compares ballistics of the Keith bullets as they evolved to present.

[AnthonyB]

I have enjoyed all of the threads we have had on the Keith bullets. No matter which is closest to the original intention, the RCBS 44-250K is the most “boolity” looking 44 boolit I have ever seen.
Tony

[alamogunr]

dogdoc, You beat me to it. I was looking for 2013 and skipped over the article. The copy calls it December-January 2014. I guess I ignored the months and focused on the year. I've got a 1½" stack of printouts of .44 Special articles that I accumulated after getting my FA97 in 44 Spec. Most are from Handloader, American Rifleman(as far back as 1953) and a couple of others. My interest in cast bullets is not what is the most faithful version of the Keith bullet, but what are the differences. The picture that Bazoo posted looks much like the RCBS 44-240 SWC and the 44-250K produced by my molds. At least RCBS didn't change them.

I've been looking at the Accurate site. 44MAG#1 posted a link to Accurate 43-253K. I have been looking at both 43-250J and 43-250K. I suspect that any of the 3 would satisfy me but others would pick all three apart for various deficiencies, even 250J which is noted to be a clone of Ideal 429421. I wouldn't disagree with any differences pointed out.

[Bazoo]

I am interested in the differences in Keith styles myself.

I’ll have to get that handloader. Unless someone knows of an online for it.

[Onty]

@ Bazoo,

Eagerly waiting for next picture. BTW, I am certainly not expert for photography, but seems to me that while taking picture above, camera focus was bit off, focusing on background. I had same problem many times.

[44MAG#1]

What you guys want is an EXACT copy of the ORIGINAL Keith/COBBLED UP Keith by someone accurate to the 1/1,000,000 or .000001" and it ain't gonna happen by anyone regardless of what the mold maker says.
As long as you look and critique every little difference, complain about every little difference and worry about every little difference no one will be satisfied.
Just get yourself a "KEITH" mold by whoever you want one from, work up yourself a good load for that "KEITH" bullet and get up off the bench and go forth and shoot.
That is how to be happy and most people you will be shooting with or who you show the bullet too wont know or care if it is an EXACT copy of the "KEITH" bullet or not.
I have both H&G 503 bullet designs, two of the RCBS designs and Lyman designs and the 270 Keith, Mr. Keith wrote up in his Gun Notes column and the H&G copy of that bullet Wayne Gibbs made of it in a 6 cavity.
It really doesn't make any real difference actually. Just in the mind of the shooter is all. Occasionally I shoot the Accurate Mold 43-253K when I get the flutters but mostly shoot two designs that are from Accurate Molds that are far removed from the "KEITH" bullet.
Have fun. May the "KEITH" be with you.

[44MAG#1]

I would say if you can't get a bullet mold from Accurate Molds that will satisfy you you will never be satisfied. He will work with you on dimensions.
Give it a whirl.

[Onty]

Here is the boolit that puzzles me:



I copied picture from https://web.archive.org/web/20181125...fault.asp?id=4 . In the article, author, John Knutson, mentioned it as "Leadhead's 250 gr LSWC", no other info.

Scaling picture, I tried to do reverse engineering, and I've got this:



However, calculated boolit weight is about 265 grains. Anybody knows who made a mold?

NOTE: Corrected design and weight:

[Bazoo]

Here’s a better picture, I think. Mind you these pics are from a cellphone. And getting to to focus right is the hard part.



I’m happy to do more pics as requested.

[Onty]

Thanks, looks like boolit on right side has sharp, or almost sharp corner in a crimp groove.

Going back to 429421, no matter what's original, Ideal 44MAG#1 presented, or another ones with sharp corner in crimp groove, if version you have is good in your handguns, keep it.

Back to Keith, he gave up on 429421, went to Hensley & Gibbs, and created #503. The rest is history.

When I was inquiring about 44 mold, I had in sight 432-640 and 432-256 https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...56-v-s-432-640 . From what I could see in comments, 432-256 has the edge, so I purchased 6 cavity aluminum mold.

[Bazoo]

What worked for Keith worked for Keith. What works for us works for us.
I have said this before on here. I talked with him many times from the mid 1970's to just a few days before he had the stroke. He said the the bullet PICTURED in his Sixgun book where all the other cast bullets are pictured WAS CAST from an ORIGINAL mold from HIS DESIGN.
I sent him a 270 grain "Keith" that he liked and that Kent Lamont did the pressure testing on it for me.
Now whether anyone wants to believe me is another matter. He wrote up the bullet in his Gunnotes column and I have his letter about the bullet too.

Do you have (or anyone) copy of that gun notes article? I’m interested to read it.

[Bazoo]

Thanks, looks like boolit on right side has sharp, or almost sharp corner in a crimp groove.

Going back to 429421, no matter what's original, Ideal 44MAG#1 presented, or another ones with sharp corner in crimp groove. To make a long story short, Keith gave up on 429421, went to Hensley & Gibbs, and created #503. The rest is history.

And I agree with all of you saying that accuracy is what matters. So, if version you have is good in your handguns, keep it. When I was inquiring about 44 mold, I had in sight 432-640 and 432-256 https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...56-v-s-432-640 . From what I could see in comments, 432-256 has the edge, so I purchased 6 cavity aluminum mold.

Yessir, the 44-250-k (mine at least) crimp groove comes down to a sharp corner. It appears as a 90 degree. When crimped, it leaves a bit of gap above the case mouth, below the forward driving band. If you like a few samples I’m glad to send them to you.

For some reason, I like the flat in the crimp groove like gll shows in his early 429421 pic.

[Onty]

Thanks for the kind offer. Problem is I am in Europe, not in USA.

[Bazoo]

Well, I’ll offer pics in any context you like then.

[405grain]

I've had a RCBS-44-245-SWC mold since 1982. The boolit looks exactly like the one in the middle of the picture on post #8. I've used this boolit in a 10.5" barreled Super Blackhawk and a 4" barreled S&W 629 to hunt hogs for ever. When powder coating came along I started shake-n-baking these slugs and never looked back. I've loaded these boolits with everything from 7.0 grains of Unique to 24.0 grains of H110 without issue. The thinner skirt on the lower driving band has never been a problem. The bullets have proven to be accurate and effective on game from 250 pound hogs to ground squirrels, and I have no complaints. IMHO minor differences in the design of "Keith type" bullets are of little consequence. The general design is so efficient that the performance on game is much more a matter of the marksman's skills than on some feature of the different choices of boolit. Of all the pigs that I shot over the years with this boolit only one got away, and one had to be shot multiple times. All the rest were bang - flops.

When the economic supply chain issues let up, and my wallet goes off it's diet and gets a little fatter, I'd like to pick up an RCBS 44-300-SWC. Not because I need it, but just because I think it might be fun to shoot.