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Thread: .44-40 lessons learned

  1. #61
    Boolit Grand Master Nobade's Avatar
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    I find ACWW work fine in black powder cartridges, and that's what I mainly use. But you need to remember that they will get harder over time. After a year or so, they do not shoot as well as when they are fresh. When I was young, an old timer taught me that if you can easily scratch/dent your bullets with a fingernail, they are soft enough to work. If not they're too hard.
    You can anneal wheelweight metal in an oven to soften it back to where it was when cast if you like.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundermaker View Post
    I am putting the same amount of powder in the case as the old loads, but I'm getting about 300fps less velocity. However, my rifle has the same slow twist as the original. That's why I'm thinking that velocity might be an issue. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen it. People often forget that bullet stability is achieved by spinning a given bullet at a certain RPM, and RPM is a function of twist rate and velocity.



    If there is an argument over that subject, you can be sure it won't involve me.

    As far as "hard cast" bullets, does air-cooled COWW qualify as such? Looking at some brinell hardness charts, it's the same hardness as the 16:1 alloy that a lot of the BPCR shooters are using.
    most of those old loads were full 40 grains (weight) and a 200grain boolit
    common now is 36 - 37 grains (thats -100fps) and a 215+ grain boolit (another - 100fps) 24 or 26 inch barrels instead of the common 20 inch (another -100fps) ....maybe also their powder was a tad better?

  3. #63
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    The BPCR shooters are also not shooting 44 WCF at short ranges of under 300 yards.
    Our 45-90 and other 32" barreled 10+ pound rifles consume double the BP and 3x the lead weight with each shot.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    most of those old loads were full 40 grains (weight) and a 200grain boolit
    common now is 36 - 37 grains (thats -100fps) and a 215+ grain boolit (another - 100fps) 24 or 26 inch barrels instead of the common 20 inch (another -100fps) ....maybe also their powder was a tad better?
    I am putting 40 grains into it. 40gr volume happens to be 40gr weight with my measure. I tested it.

    215gr vs 200gr does not lose 100fps, nor does 4 inches off the barrel. Besides that, I was referring to velocities from the same length barrel.

    The 36-37 grain charges of swiss are getting the same velocities as the old 40 gr loads due to the volume difference in the cases. The pressures wind up about the same.

    You can see John Kort's tests on various brands of powder in the cartridge with this 215gr bullet (his design). Scheutzen just doesn't get good velocity. Swiss does. That'll be my next test.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by missionary5155 View Post
    The BPCR shooters are also not shooting 44 WCF at short ranges of under 300 yards.
    Our 45-90 and other 32" barreled 10+ pound rifles consume double the BP and 3x the lead weight with each shot.
    I fail to see what difference that makes in reference to the subject.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobade View Post
    I find ACWW work fine in black powder cartridges, and that's what I mainly use. But you need to remember that they will get harder over time. After a year or so, they do not shoot as well as when they are fresh. When I was young, an old timer taught me that if you can easily scratch/dent your bullets with a fingernail, they are soft enough to work. If not they're too hard.
    You can anneal wheelweight metal in an oven to soften it back to where it was when cast if you like.
    That's something that's a bit perplexing. I guess the best approach for utmost accuracy is to cast your bullets no more than a week ahead of time.

    That being said, I'm not going for sub MOA. I'm just going for minute of tin can at 100.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomokabear View Post
    Does anyone know where I can find 44-40 brass either new or used?
    Keep your eye on Starline's website. As soon as it goes from "no-backorders" to "back-orders accepted", place your order. It may take a few days to receive or a few months, but when you order, order as much as you can afford!
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundermaker View Post
    I am putting 40 grains into it. 40gr volume happens to be 40gr weight with my measure. I tested it.

    215gr vs 200gr does not lose 100fps, nor does 4 inches off the barrel. Besides that, I was referring to velocities from the same length barrel.

    The 36-37 grain charges of swiss are getting the same velocities as the old 40 gr loads due to the volume difference in the cases. The pressures wind up about the same.

    You can see John Kort's tests on various brands of powder in the cartridge with this 215gr bullet (his design). Scheutzen just doesn't get good velocity. Swiss does. That'll be my next test.
    agree on the scheutzen (Wano) it weighs heavy shoots weak --moreso in smaller cases I think --ie less difference in bigger charges and particularly under heavy boolits (just an opinion from shooting - no data to back that)

    on the other ? -- disagree --- you may not lose 100FPS for that extra boolit weight but guarantee you will lose some FPS - measureable if you care to do that. Ditto for carbine barrel length vs rifle (4inches) been there done that one - maybe not 100FPS but your chronograph will notice it.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    agree on the scheutzen (Wano) it weighs heavy shoots weak --moreso in smaller cases I think --ie less difference in bigger charges and particularly under heavy boolits (just an opinion from shooting - no data to back that)

    on the other ? -- disagree --- you may not lose 100FPS for that extra boolit weight but guarantee you will lose some FPS - measureable if you care to do that. Ditto for carbine barrel length vs rifle (4inches) been there done that one - maybe not 100FPS but your chronograph will notice it.
    Like I said, you can see John Kort's tests. He got about 300fps less velocity with Scheutzen than swiss in the same barrel with that bullet.

    Hopefully you're right about less difference in bigger cases and heavy bullets. I might try it in my newly acquired 45-70.

  10. #70
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Not shooting black, but smokeless in Rugers, Piettas and Marlins. Great success with 230-grain Accurate 43-229H and 43-230G and nominal case full, filled gently without compression. Accurate and powerful hunting loads.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The ENEMY is listening.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundermaker View Post
    Like I said, you can see John Kort's tests. He got about 300fps less velocity with Scheutzen than swiss in the same barrel with that bullet.

    I would agree with that -- I got +200 give or take a whisker from Goex to Wano with a 225 grain - everybody says Swiss better again than Goex....

    Got 1355 FPS from a 24 inch Uberti with 40 grains (weight) of Homemade under the 215 grain RCBS boolit


    Hopefully you're right about less difference in bigger cases and heavy bullets. I might try it in my newly acquired 45-70.
    ....

  12. #72
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    Outpost, that 43-229H is a good-looking bullet, and seems rounded enough on the meplat edges to be a good feeder. Also has a nice lube groove if shooting with black.
    What powder are using, and what velocities are you getting?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Not shooting black, but smokeless in Rugers, Piettas and Marlins. Great success with 230-grain Accurate 43-229H and 43-230G and nominal case full, filled gently without compression. Accurate and powerful hunting loads.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	312336Click image for larger version. 

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    I missed something in the translation "nominal case full"...... of ????????
    RE7 ??? or ????????

  14. #74
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    Our 44WCF rifles & carbines get fed 40-1. 37-39 gr 3F Goex. Why use more tin than needed.
    Our 45-90 gets fed 91 grains of 3F Goex and 40-1 cast does not maintain nose shape.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
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  15. #75
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    I missed something in the translation "nominal case full"...... of ????????
    RE7 ??? or ????????
    RL7 or 4198.
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  16. #76
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abert Rim View Post
    Outpost, that 43-229H is a good-looking bullet, and seems rounded enough on the meplat edges to be a good feeder. Also has a nice lube groove if shooting with black.
    What powder are using, and what velocities are you getting?
    18.5 of 4227, 22 grs of 4198 or 24 grs RL7 for 1350 fps
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  17. #77
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    Thanks, Outpost. I believe I have some H-4198 hiding around here somewhere.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check