38-45 Stevens

[Danth]

Working on a very old Stevens Tip-up which has both 14ga shotgun barrel and what appears to be a 38-45 heavy octagon barrel. The case dimensions vary from those in Handloaders's Manual of Cartridge Conversions. The chamber appears to be a mix of 38 Ballard Extra Long and Stevens 38-45. Bore is .364" coinciding with 38-45, but the head and rim more closely matches a Ballard. Not sure if the book is wrong, Steven's tolerances varied or what. Doesn't appear to be modified in any way and likely never shot. A 1876 Steven's manual mentions a 38-100 but I've never been able to pin down exactly what a 38-100 is. Can anyone tell me the rim diameter and head diameter of a actual 38-45 Stevens cartridge? Thanks, Dan

[cwtebay]

Steven's naming system got a bit wonky, 38-100 did not mean 100 grains of powder such as 45-70. The only example that I have seen was a heeled bullet and very similar to the 38 extra long in case dimensions. I have a reference book that has dimensions, I'll have to look when I get home.

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[Bent Ramrod]

I’d treat the rifle as a law unto itself. “Standards” back then were “there or thereabouts,” to quote CAPT Crossman.

I have a Stevens 107 in .32-35. I had found an Ideal #6 tool in that caliber, and thought I was “there.” Cast a bunch of boolits from the mould on the end of the tool, cobbled some ammo together with the tool and it didn’t shoot for sour apples. The boolit was sized through the hole in the tool handle, and was the 0.311” diameter proper to the .32-35, but I could see daylight all around it when I put one into the rifle’s chamber leade. A 165-gr boolit from a Winchester mould for a .32-40, which was 0.319” diameter, fit and shot fine.

I reported on one of these sites that the shells I made from neck-cracked and shortened .32-40 shells, or .30-30 shells sized in a .32-40 FLS die and shortened, chambered fine. Somebody with another .32-35 (maybe his was a Maynard; can’t remember now), stated flatly that .32-35 shells were NOT merely shortened .32-40 shells, and my dodge for producing shells couldn’t possibly work. But the shells work fine for my rifle.

Make a chamber cast and make your shells accordingly. The dimensions in Cartridges of the World were obtained from specimen cartridges, and they could vary from maker to maker, lot to lot, and maybe shift to shift. No SAAMI back then to keep everybody in line.

The “.38-100” designation meant “.38 caliber” in modern parlance. There weren’t the plethora of chamberings back in the 1880s, so it worked for a few years. In the time period, it meant a straight-cased, outside-lubricated .38 rimfire; what would be called a “.38 Long” when chambered in a bureau-drawer revolver. It might also be a centerfire; easy enough to determine by examining the breech face.

[Danth]

Bent Ramrod, you bring up some interesting points. I have another Tip-up marked 32 and I had assumed it to be 32-35, but the chamber was not to "proper" 32-35 dimensions. If I shortened a 32- 40 case, it fit fine. Haven't slugged the bore, but I'll bet it's closer to .319" than .311". I also have a "38 EX.L." Ideal tong tool with mold. It produces a bullet which is undersize for my Stevens 38-35 but apparently correct for the Maynard. What I have been referring as my 38-45 is actually closer to a 38-35 in dimensions though the bore is .363" like the 38-45. As I have to produce some lathe turned cases, I'm going to take your suggestion and take a chamber cast and make cases which fit it rather than using specs provided by Manual of Cartridge Conversions. Still curious as to the "38-100" designation. The "38" is obvious, but what does the "100" stand for? I have a mold for "old Stevens" cartridges according to Ideal, #35875 which looks identical to the pic in the Stevens 1876 manual.

[Bent Ramrod]

I think the "-100" is hundredths of an inch.

Cartridge nomenclature was very catch-as-catch-can (as were the cartridge designs themselves) for a while.

[kootne]

Bent Ramrod got it. 38-100 = 38/100 = .38