10.4x38mmR - .41 Swiss

[Mike_M]

When my grandfather passed away in 1986, I inherited a Vetterli rifle and several boxes of ammo. Back then I fired a box through the gun to see if it still worked. Every round fired and it was pretty cool shooting vintage ammo through a vintage gun, but after that I put everything in storage and pretty much left it alone.

Yesterday I dug it all out again to see just what I had...



The messed-up Remington box only has 10 rounds in it, all the others are full.

It still looks to be in decent condition...




I polished up the cases on a couple in case I decide to build a display of the old ammo I have.



I also took the Vetterli apart and cleaned/lubed it. Amazing how slick the action is on these old rifles. I'd like to do the conversion to centerfire and make new ammo, but with the primer situation being what it is... not gonna happen anytime soon.

[cwtebay]

Very nice collection!!! Have you looked into reloading those rimfire cases? It is not difficult, and likely simpler than going the CF route. Look at Steve Blanchard on YouTube, he has very good information both there and on this forum.
It seems challenging, but it's really not any more difficult than CF reloading, just a different process.

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[Mike_M]

Thank you. I hadn't considered reloading the rimfire cases. I'll have to look at the process and see if it's something I'd be able to do.

[Outpost75]

The Italian version of the rifle is centerfire. My buddy in Italy drills the fired rimfire cases to reload with a 209 shotshell primer and black powder. He says it is common over there to convert Swiss rimfire rifles to use the Italian load.

[redneck1]

As simple as these are to convert there's no advantage in messing around with rimfire ammo .

That is quite the collection of ammo , I wish I had one of the full boxes just to keep with my rifle .

[JoeJames]

The Italian version of the rifle is centerfire. My buddy in Italy drills the fired rimfire cases to reload with a 209 shotshell primer and black powder. He says it is common over there to convert Swiss rimfire rifles to use the Italian load.

Always curious. Seems to me offhand that a rimfire case head would be too thin to fully seat a 209 primer. Just the nature of a rimfire.

[Outpost75]

Always curious. Seems to me offhand that a rimfire case head would be too thin to fully seat a 209 primer. Just the nature of a rimfire.

He seats primers by supporting the inside of the case using a piece of 8mm metal tubing which fits over the primer, them inserting primer and tapping firmly against a flat surface. Seems to work OK.

[JoeJames]

He seats primers by supporting the inside of the case using a piece of 8mm metal tubing which fits over the primer, them inserting primer and tapping firmly against a flat surface. Seems to work OK.

That's a very good example of why I might have been a pretty good engineer; albeit a very slow one. Kind of an inside shim that reinforces the base of the cartridge, huh?

[Outpost75]

That's a very good example of why I might have been a pretty good engineer; albeit a very slow one. Kind of an inside shim that reinforces the base of the cartridge, huh?

Cold forms the hole edges around the primer to form tight seal with primer flange and no gas leaks.

[ascast]

Nice collection of ammo- a small fortune just there. the CF conversion is dead simple. You will have to drill a hole in the bolt face to do it. You may or may not grind off the original firing pine to fill up the space. If that is a deal breaker, I'm sure you could find a "donor" bolt to modify and keep your original as is. keep us posted.

[Mike_M]

Nice collection of ammo- a small fortune just there. the CF conversion is dead simple. You will have to drill a hole in the bolt face to do it. You may or may not grind off the original firing pine to fill up the space. If that is a deal breaker, I'm sure you could find a "donor" bolt to modify and keep your original as is. keep us posted.

I'm not too worried about the value of the rifle and don't mind modifying the original bolt. The gun is already partially 'sporterized' in that the fore end and magazine tube have been shortened and only holds five rounds. It used to have a micrometer sight on the rear but I found an original rear sight online and have that installed now.



Pic is upside-down. Dunno why.

I wouldn't mind selling some of this ammo if I knew where. It's either that or go shoot it all up. Until I can find some primers I can't reload anything anyway.

[bkbville]

Was that re-blued?
Lee still sells dies for .41 Swiss.

I did the CF conversion (described on this forum) with an RCBS decapper pin as the firing pin, and a piece of plastic as the retainer.

You can form .41 swiss brass but cutting back 8mm Lebel (lots of instructions on this forum), annealing and forming in the die.

What I could never get was the right projectile. The original is a healed bullet, and I had to undersize to get things to fit.

My groups were a few inches at 50Y, but stinging vertically - something I never got around to solving before the next shinny thing passed my way.

Maybe this spring I'll dust it off, oil it up, and give it another go.

BTW: if you should decide to take apart one of those rounds, please take lots of pictures and share!

[Outpost75]

Accurate can produce the correct mold for heeled Vetterli

[Mike_M]

Was that re-blued?
Lee still sells dies for .41 Swiss.

I did the CF conversion (described on this forum) with an RCBS decapper pin as the firing pin, and a piece of plastic as the retainer.

You can form .41 swiss brass but cutting back 8mm Lebel (lots of instructions on this forum), annealing and forming in the die.

What I could never get was the right projectile. The original is a healed bullet, and I had to undersize to get things to fit.

My groups were a few inches at 50Y, but stinging vertically - something I never got around to solving before the next shinny thing passed my way.

Maybe this spring I'll dust it off, oil it up, and give it another go.

BTW: if you should decide to take apart one of those rounds, please take lots of pictures and share!

I don't know if it was re-blued or not, but I wouldn't be surprised. It seems to be in excellent condition.

I actually did take a round apart once, long ago, but didn't take pictures then. I remember the powder as being slightly pinkish in color and tubular, but square, not round. It's been 30+ years so I may be misremembering. If I do take another one apart I'll definitely take pics!

How many rounds are needed for an Appleseed shoot?

[Battis]

I pulled a vintage 41 Swiss round. The bullet is hollow based.