A vintage rimfire Can I shoot it?

[Gazz]

I won this Frank Wesson at a local auction and it looks like a fun shooter but I'm not sure of its actual chambering, they were made in both .30 rf and .32rf. I suspect .32 since they were more common and have found that the bore will accept a .301" pin gauge and the chamber will accept a .321" pin gauge. I've not been able to find cartridge specs for these older rounds so that's all I have. I have been looking at the .32rf thread and considering the .27 cal nail gun blanks and modified cases but haven't made it all the way through yet. I do wonder about the strength of this tiny little pistol though. It is a neat little gun and it has a near perfect bore.

[recumbent]

I would not shoot it.

[unclemikeinct]

The 32 rimfire ammo is not worth chasing. Last batch we found [twenty years ago] & was expensive back then. We had two or three split cases in fifty [maybe only 40] . If you can make the blanks into ammo safely, it is a cool project. Enjoy. uncle mike in ct

[15meter]

I've you do find ammo and choose to shoot it, wear both safety glasses and a face shield. Local boy came across a similar vintage 22 RF. I don't have a clue what he loaded in it but he almost lost one eye permanently and damaged the other eye pretty severely.

Since that happened, his wife has done 99% of the driving, I'm not sure he can pass the driving eye test. And he's mid-50's.

Not being able to see scares me more that I want to think about.

[ShooterAZ]

Some of those nail gun blanks are high pressure! I would not recommend going that route. Personally, I wouldn't shoot it at all, but that's just me.

[kootne]

Gazz, I would recommend using a .22 nail gun blank, power Level 1 in a gun like that instead of a .27 cal blank. Also I would use the longest case that will fit your chamber and a 299152 or 299155 bullet as they are the lightest. These things will help keep pressure to a minimum. I have a Stevens tip-up rifle in .32 rf and was suprised to find out it had a brass frame which can't be overly strong.

[cwtebay]

I would likely start with a thorough examination of the firearm. If you don't feel comfortable after that, either have someone more qualified look or hang it on the wall.
As far as shooting it - I do like the blank accepting cartridges (such as is available through Dixie Gun Works) but would probably begin with an acorn 22 blank rather than a ramset blank.
It's actually not difficult to find 32 RF from Navy Arms that will be quite reliable, albeit expensive.

Looks like a fun thing to shoot!

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[uscra112]

Yes, do a thorough checkout of the gun before you even think about working up ammo for it.

If it checks out OK, go on Gunbroker and search <299153> That will get you to the cases and bullets made by Jack Harrison, who has sometimes posted here as Tenmile. Jack has a little tutorial and even a video on how to load the round right.

I've been using his adapter cases, but NOT with nailgun loads. I use Walther 6mm "acorn blanks" from Gun Dog Supply, with about 1 to 1.5 grains of Bullseye, in my old Stevens Favorite boys' rifles. A mild load, and the spent "primer" is much easier to punch out than the nailgun cases are.

BTW I once bought a box of Navy Arms .32 rimfires. Supposedly made in Brazil. Three out of the first ten rounds I fired (in a rebuilt rifle) burst the rims.

[ulav8r]

Only way I would be comfortable shooting that gun is with a .22 liner and CCI quiet cartridges. That might be a bit on the conservative side but I would not want to damage myself or the gun.

[uscra112]

That .321 chamber bothers me. If the gun were made originally for .32 rimfire, it ought to be more like .315. Can you post a pic of the open breech?

Also, will your pin show you the length of the chamber? I'm wondering if it was made for the .32 short rimfire. No matter which, adaptors made from solid-head .32 S&W brass won't burst a rim on you like that NOS Navy Arms stuff will. And being reloadable, you won't need many. I'm making up parts to enable reloading in the field with a Lyman nutcracker tool. Drawings will be available soon. (I've already done this for the .25 Stevens reloadable rimfire.)

BTW I just looked at my Quickload model for the .32 Long reloadable rimfire Pressure estimate is only 4000 psi. for the 1.5 grain Bullsaeye load and Jack's 87 grain bullet.

Converting to a .22 rimfire will involve moving the firing pin, as well as the liner. I'd hate to see such a rare specimen thus defiled.

[kootne]

I wouldn't worry about a .321 chamber. I have checked many singleshot .32rf's with pin gauges and I have found most to be within a couple thou of .320
I check both ends of the chamber and make my brass .001 smaller at the mouth with the mouth over a .299 spud and .001 smaller at the head. Resizing is seldom if ever required and I have never lost any cases.

[cwtebay]

That .321 chamber bothers me. If the gun were made originally for .32 rimfire, it ought to be more like .315. Can you post a pic of the open breech?

Also, will your pin show you the length of the chamber? I'm wondering if it was made for the .32 short rimfire. No matter which, adaptors made from solid-head .32 S&W brass won't burst a rim on you like that NOS Navy Arms stuff will. And being reloadable, you won't need many. I'm making up parts to enable reloading in the field with a Lyman nutcracker tool. Drawings will be available soon. (I've already done this for the .25 Stevens reloadable rimfire.)

BTW I just looked at my Quickload model for the .32 Long reloadable rimfire Pressure estimate is only 4000 psi. for the 1.5 grain Bullsaeye load and Jack's 87 grain bullet.

Converting to a .22 rimfire will involve moving the firing pin, as well as the liner. I'd hate to see such a rare specimen thus defiled.

I don't use Quick Loads - but I'm intrigued, what sort of pressure constant is being assumed for the primer detonation? Is the acorn blank's pressure addressed by that program?
With 32 Short RF, I can propel the same proposed bullet with only the acorn blank at approximately 450fps from a 3" barrel (hence the question I am asking).

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[Bent Ramrod]

Beware of any looseness in the lockup. If the barrel wiggles in the frame even a little, it will be disconcerting in pistol mode and dangerous in rifle mode.

I bought a slightly loosely-goosy Stevens Off-Hand .22 pistol with a worn bore and an indifferent replacement extractor whose locking wedge was slightly worn. I could wiggle the barrel a tiny bit when it was in battery. After shooting a couple boxes of Kolibris and Super-Kolibris in it with no issues, I essayed a single Standard Velocity Long Rifle.

The gun did a one-shot semiauto impersonation, popping full open, barrel tipped down and the empty shell ejecting at an angle which (fortunately) missed my face and head.

I relined the barrel, made a new pivot pin, link and extractor and made a new locking wedge, taking several days to spot it in for a perfect fit. It handles Standard Velocity LRs with no trouble now.

All the Navy Arms .32 RF I’ve ever tried worked and shot pretty well in my rifles, given their pitted, ringed bores. The operating pressure must be much lower than most .22 RF, given the low velocity of the bullets. If your gun is tight and in good condition, it should handle light loads OK.

[uscra112]

I don't use Quick Loads - but I'm intrigued, what sort of pressure constant is being assumed for the primer detonation? Is the acorn blank's pressure addressed by that program?
With 32 Short RF, I can propel the same proposed bullet with only the acorn blank at approximately 450fps from a 3" barrel (hence the question I am asking).

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You make a good point.

QL has no way that I can see to account for the energy of the primer. I assume that the acorn blank is greater than your typical small pistol primer based solely on comparing the noise and flash of the two. Not very scientific.

I don't have any pistols that use the .32 reloadable rimfire, but I have fired a "no powder" experiment in a Favorite. If you got 450 fps from a 3" barrel, this definitely needs exploration. I have an alternate CF breechblock form my 1915 Favorite, so I can test with essentially the same brass and the same powder charge, acorn blank vs. a SP primer, to see how they compare. It'll need for me to set up the Chrony, so it won't happen overnight. Will report back when I get some data. Probably start a new thread.

[cwtebay]

You make a good point.

QL has no way that I can see to account for the energy of the primer. I assume that the acorn blank is greater than your typical small pistol primer based solely on comparing the noise and flash of the two. Not very scientific.

I don't have any pistols that use the .32 reloadable rimfire, but I have fired a "no powder" experiment in a Favorite. If you got 450 fps from a 3" barrel, this definitely needs exploration. I have an alternate CF breechblock form my 1915 Favorite, so I can test with essentially the same brass and the same powder charge, acorn blank vs. a SP primer, to see how they compare. It'll need for me to set up the Chrony, so it won't happen overnight. Will report back when I get some data. Probably start a new thread.

That would be fantastic! Appreciate your information!

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[Battis]

I have an 1870 Frank Wesson that's actually a smoothbore pocket shotgun (center fire). I did alot of research on it, and eventually did fire it with black powder rounds. The barrel is 24" long. The chamber is .375" and the barrel is lined down to .358" (smoothbore).

Check out this forum: https://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl

[Eddie Southgate]

I like the idea of having a slide in liner made chambered for .22 LR standard velocity. It would not be cheap to have made but you would recover the price in savings on ammo if you like it and shoot it much plus it would be much safer . You can cobble up some kind of ammo for the original chamber but I would not do it myself . A removable liner will allow you to shoot cheaper , readily available ammo and wont damage the value of the rifle. Those are super cool and it would be a shame to damage it not to mention damaging yourself or someone standing near you. Some things you can do but shouldn't and I think this is one you shouldn't. Not sure you can find the correct .32 long case anyway.

If you decide to go with the original chamber with blank inserted cases I would load black powder only . Frank Wesson made rifles from 1859 to 1888 so the steel they used was strictly for black powder .

[uscra112]

As I posted earlier, converting it to .22 will require moving the firing pin. Not easily done in this case. And shouldn't be. This is a rare piece.

And new reloadable .32 Colt rimfire adapters are readily available from several sources. Not cheap, but you won't need more than a dozen or so.

[EdZ KG6UTS]

[QUOTE=Gazz;5380857]I won this Frank Wesson at a local auction and it looks like a fun shooter but I'm not sure of its actual chambering, they were made in both .30 rf and .32rf. Looks like a "bicycle" rifle. At the end of the 19th century bikes and shooting were all the rage...too bad it a'int that way now. I shoot a #2 Rolling Block in .32Rf using #1 or #2 Hilti squibs with off center drilled brass from Robertson Cartridge Co, https://www.rccbrass.com/ and shouldered boolits from Old West Bullet Moulds https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/. If you search "reloading .32 rimfire" on You Tube there is a demo of a die set with a Lee hand press, what I've used with good success. If your rifle is deemed safe look at those sites, not cheap but fun.

[uscra112]

That demo is Jack Harrison.