Lee PrecisionWidenersMidSouth Shooters SupplyReloading Everything
RepackboxLoad DataInline FabricationTitan Reloading
RotoMetals2
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 73

Thread: What I did to my Shotguns

  1. #41
    Boolit Master Baltimoreed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    1,569
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	57AABD8A-D523-4E5E-A278-79794BA002B2.jpeg 
Views:	37 
Size:	50.5 KB 
ID:	302726Started on a M1912 20 ga polychoked field gun into a riot. Been too hot out in my barn. Should be a handy dandy 20 ga pump.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    East Central Minn.
    Posts
    1,680
    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    pmer: First what kind of gun is it? Most Stock Field Grade Pump Guns have stocks that are dimensioned for "Mr. Average Guy." IE: 13.5" to 14.5" LOP. In any event you need to mount the gun so the toe of the stock is in the pocket of your shoulder. There is sometimes some speculation of where that "pocket" is?
    I had to learn it a few years ago even though I have been shooting for 60+ years.

    Reach under your armpit, put your fingers directly into the pit and close your thumb around your Pectoral Muscle just below your shoulder bone. That's where your pocket is.

    When you mount the gun properly with the Toe in the Pocket you then mash your cheek bone down on the comb of the stock. As the gun recoils your head should travel with it, and "smacking in the chops" doesn't happen.

    This will take practice to master!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..

    It took me a while to get this down and I still get smacked sometimes on the first shot after laying off for a while. However I am quickly reminded of what I forget and correct for the next shot.

    I am currently learning how to shoot Skeet. One of the key factors in clay bird shooting is keeping your head on the gun. That means keeping your cheek bone directly on the comb of the stock. IF you don't, you will shoot high every time and 1/4" of the comb equals 3 feet at the target!

    I find myself raising my head up a lot even though I am concentrating on it, but my .410 O/U doesn't have any significant recoil so there is no pain associated with it. Plus that 1/4" off the comb doesn't give the gun much distance to build momentum and hurt you. The penalty is just another miss. Even with my 12 ga. it isn't that bad. The gun weighs almost 9 lbs. But that one small factor is haunting me, and lately I find myself relaxing as the shot breaks, and raising my cheek bone just ever so slightly maybe 1/4". I have caught myself doing it even though before I called for the bird I was concentrating on having my Cheek Weld hard in place! This will take practice to get past just like it did with my combat guns. It took me 3 classes to get past this or about 1200 rounds! YMMV?

    Typically for a Combat Shotgun you want the stock a little shorter than for a field gun. 12.5-13" LOP seems to work for most people unless you are really tall. The whole idea of doing this is so that your stance is squared up to the target a little more which helps absorb the Recoil better so you can make follow up shots faster. This comes into play when doing multiple shot drills where you have to hit 2,3,4 targets in a row. you get 1.7, 2.1 and 2.7 seconds to complete these shots. Not too hard with a SA, but a Pump gun is definitely more challenging.

    But my main point here is that you've got to keep your head on the gun! Only practice will make that happen.

    Hope this helps.

    Randy
    The one that's giving me trouble is the Browning BPS 10 gauge. I took a couple pictures for comparison. The BPS 10 is on the right. Center is a 870 pump with a vent rib barrel installed. Left is a Remington 1889 10ga SXS.
    BPS 10ga lop 14.5" comb is 1.75" drop at heel
    870 12 ga lop 13 7/8" comb is 2 3/8" drop
    1889 sxs 10ga lop 13 1/4" (rear trigger) comb goes from 2 3/16 to 3 1/4 at the heel.

    With the side by side and the 870 I have no trouble with cheek slap but the BPS 10 another story. I suppose it's worse because of the heavier loads but I got to wondering if it's for 2 more reasons - comb too high and LOP is too long? If I put the toe deep in the pocket it will shoot high. If I mount it to be properly lined up on the vent rib the heel is above my shoulder and I'm mashing my cheek bone on top of the comb. A couple of hi velocity steel loads is about all my cheek can handle.
    In contrast the Remington 10 gauge sxs is a dream to shoot recoil wise. And it patterns 1 1/4 oz loads of buckshot very tight. I usually start at 20 - 25 yards to see pattern development. But I think manufacturers put more time into the forcing cones and chokes back then too.

    So I guess I'm thinking out loud trying to convince myself that I have to do something with the butt stock of the BPS 10 to make it more usable. The pictures seem to help drive the point.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20220731_152834_(1080_x_1080_pixel).jpg   IMG_20220731_152938_(1080_x_1080_pixel).jpg   IMG_20220731_153033_(1080_x_1080_pixel).jpg  
    Last edited by pmer; 07-31-2022 at 11:06 PM.
    Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.

  3. #43
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    East Central Minn.
    Posts
    1,680
    Duplicate
    Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.

  4. #44
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,899
    As a recoil sensitive trap shooter who had to shoot up to 400 rounds a day and 1200+ rounds during an event, I had to tame recoil. Gun fit...gun fit...gun fit.

    If I can find it and post it, I have an write up on it I will post when I get to my main computer.

    Adding mass helps a lot. But who wants a 10 lb tactical shotgun?

    IMO people use much heavier loads than necessary.
    Don Verna


  5. #45
    Moderator

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    9,872
    Yes, Heavier loads are meant for shooting Polar Bears. Anything below that you are fine with #8 birdshot level loads. All my 12 ga. Reloads and that means slugs and buckshot too, are loaded in my Standard Trap Loads of AA Hulls with 18 or20 gr of Green Dot Claybuster Wad and fold crimp. Payloads are by weight so the shell doesn't know if it has an ounce of bird shot or buckshot or a 1 oz. slug.

    The reason for the two different powder charges is because I changed my Progressive DL366 from 18 to 20gr to get a better burn. The higher pressure burns the powder more completely, so less unburned powder left in the barrel.. I didn't have another bushing for DL266 so it stayed at 18 gr. Makes very little difference on slug and buckshot loads at that level.

    Training with High Power 12 ga. loads is stoopid. You are just beating yourself for no reason, and all you will teach yourself is how much you don't want to shoot that gun.

    As far as you 10 ga. guns I can't really offer up anything beyond what I just said above. These are strictly Hunting Weapons so you are never going to shoot a large volume of shells in one sitting. All I can say is drag the gun into your shoulder hard, keep your head on the gun, and just take the recoil, not much more you can do.

    But you can reload your 10g Ammo to lower levels and that might help.

    Randy.
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  6. #46
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    7,136
    @pmer, there may be some things you can do to adjust your current BPS stock. I'm unsure of the availability of shims for a BPS. If you can find them, that is a super easy way to adjust stock angle. It could be that you prefer a shorter LOP. In the pictures it looks like you have a slip on pad on there, but I'm sure you've tried it without that pad. You can then replace the recoil pad with a thinner one to reduce LOP. The issue I see there is you describe the comb as being too high. Well the shorter your LOP, the farther forward your head sits, and ultimately the higher your eye goes since the front of your comb is higher than the rear. If none of that helps, the BPS has been made for many years, and I think it is likely an older stock may be shaped different than yours. If you really want to take the time to make it your own, you could buy a wood stock and add an adjustable comb kit. One last tip that might not help, but it almost sounds like your pitch might be off. You can buy pitch spacers that change the angle of your recoil pad. If your pad bottom is poking into your shoulder, changing the pitch may help to get that pad square to you.

  7. #47
    Moderator

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    9,872
    I have a new Browning Citori CXS 32" I have been using for learning Skeet, the problem I have found with teh gun is that teh stock Recoil Pad which is Radiused on all surfaces doesn't index into my shoulder the same way every time.. When shooting clays it is a well known fact that if your cheek comes off the comb of the stock 1/4" it equals 3 feet high at the target 25 yards away.

    My solution to this is to put a Pachmayer Trap Pad on the gun that has sharp edges and curvature that fits my shoulder better. This sir the same pad I put on my Browning A5 Tactical Gun. It is real squishy and the part that contacts your shoulder is textured so it stays in position really well. Luckily I have an extra one in my shop because the new price on them is over $60 !!!

    Randy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100464864.JPG  
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  8. #48
    Moderator

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    9,872
    And that pad is working beautifully !!!

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  9. #49
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    SW Washington
    Posts
    142
    Very informative thread! I have shot some trap, but never had the chance to shoot Tactical Shotgun.

    Sounds like a lot of fun.

  10. #50
    Moderator

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    9,872
    Learning the Gun Handling that goes with Tactical Shot Gunning will improve your Shotgun Shooting in general. Learning how to Port Load or Single Load a Pump or Semi Auto Gun, makes you a better and safer field shooter.

    Most all Repeating Shotguns must be plugged so they only hold two rounds in the magazine, and that plus one in the chamber makes for three rounds on board. But here comes a big flock of Geese? So you fire your first three rounds, and then start Port Loading the gun, and take down 3 more right in front of the Game Warden. Just Imagine how impressed he would be with your gun handling skills? Doubt if he would even ask to see the gun or check for a plug.

    There is a lot to Tactical Shot Gunning and going to a class is a very eye opening experience. People seldom go to just one class as they are so much fun you just have to go back. I have been to 7 so far and will probably be going back after the first.

    I just shot skeet with my Ithaca M37 last week and I had no problems with racking the slide immediately after every shot. Before Pump Gun Class I would have not been able to make a double to save my life. I can do it every time now.

    Ithacas are kind of weird in the loading department due to the bottom ejection, and the Lifter blocking the Ejection Port when the bolt is open. It is virtually impossible to single load one without just stuffing a round into the mag and cycling the slide, which is twice as much work as with a Mossberg or other gun with Side Ejection. You have to have the bolt closed to load the magazine and thus the slide is forward and must be cycled completely to put a round in the chamber. After that they are just like any other gun. So the key to using an Ithaca as a Tactical Gun is to not run it dry. There are zillions of Ithaca Riot Guns out there as they were very popular with Police Departments before Rem 870's took over.

    Go look at schools that teach this. It is a very rewarding pursuit.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  11. #51
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Posts
    107
    I can recommend the Williams vent rib fiber optic sights for aging eyes. Mounted a set on a Remington Special Field for a bear defense gun. They made qualifying much easier. That said, I will admit that light, synthetic stocked 12 gauge pumps with full power slugs are just about my least favorite weapon. In addition to the beating they dish out, I almost always manage to pinch or nick myself on the fore end. My fault not the gun’s but there is a good deal to be said for the handling characteristics of wood stocked hunting arms if you have spent a lot of time chasing upland game.

  12. #52
    Moderator

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    9,872
    Quote Originally Posted by Chena View Post
    I can recommend the Williams vent rib fiber optic sights for aging eyes. Mounted a set on a Remington Special Field for a bear defense gun. They made qualifying much easier. That said, I will admit that light, synthetic stocked 12 gauge pumps with full power slugs are just about my least favorite weapon. In addition to the beating they dish out, I almost always manage to pinch or nick myself on the fore end. My fault not the gun’s but there is a good deal to be said for the handling characteristics of wood stocked hunting arms if you have spent a lot of time chasing upland game.
    Is your "Special Field " the model with the 21" bbl and Strait Grip English Stock? Could you post a picture of it?

    This is my favorite model of the Remington 870 And I would love to see a pic with the William's Sights installed on the rib.

    Also your barrel is threaded for Rem Chokes? Carlson makes a Rem Choke Rifled Choke Tube that will improve your slug accuracy. Also using Low Recoil Federal Slugs will cut down on the misery. Shooting High Base Slugs in that light gun would not be pleasant. see my post up thread about ammo.

    Randy
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 01-26-2023 at 02:59 PM.
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  13. #53
    Moderator

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    9,872
    OK Just got back from SHOT and I had some interesting encounters. I Met Larry Potterfield from Midway USA in a Hallway going out of the venue. Talked for 5 minutes! Great Guy.

    But the shotgun related thing that happened is I got Lena Miculek to show me how to do the old style 4 shell loading technique.(Not Quad Loading!) This is the one you use if you carry your shells in a CA Comp Shell Carrier.

    First she showed me the process while facing me, then she turned around so I could see it looking over her shoulder as you would see it from the shooters viewpoint..

    She was VERY enthusiastic! and she broke it down into the 4 component parts. And when she got done I knew exactly how to do it! I am practicing every day for about 15 minutes and will have it up to speed soon.

    The true way to decide if someone knows what they are talking about,,, is if they can explain it in Clear and Concise terms, without using any .50 Cent words that nobody understands. If you completely understand what you were told, chances are the person actually understood what they were talking about.

    Any way I will be posting a tutorial on here it as soon as I have mastered it.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  14. #54
    Boolit Master Wag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    740
    Can't wait to see it, Randy!

    --Wag--
    "Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master

    Hamish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Edge of The Crab Orchard National Wildlife Refuge
    Posts
    3,569
    Since Randy is taking so long to post again, I thought this thread could use a little intermission vid of the lady herself,,,, (she really is cute as a bug)

    https://youtu.be/LHbfXlphbu0



    Hey Randy!
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    Last of the original Group Buy Honcho's.

    "Dueling should have never been made illegal in this country. It settled lots of issues between folks."- Char-Gar

  16. #56
    Boolit Master fastdadio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Mi.
    Posts
    974
    The gal knows her way around a scatter gun. A chip off the 'ole' block.
    Deplorable infidel

  17. #57
    Moderator

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    9,872
    That is the other way to do it. The older way is to take 4 rounds off your "California Competition Shell Holder" Line them up sitting on your pinky finger, and stuff them into the magazine one at a time. I have been practicing this maneuver for a week or so now and still haven't come up to a good speed. I can do it exactly like she showed me but not nearly as fast or as smooth. Also getting 4 rounds to go in the same way is a problem. First 2 not bad, next one starting to fall off, and then the 4th round is always in the wrong position to get it in the port.

    If I look at the whole process, starting with an empty gun, loading 4 rounds then firing 4 rounds, I can do it faster if I port load and single fire 4 times. Like 4 Emergency Reloads. If I'm behind a barricade it is more prudent to fully load the magazine then re engage four targets. That's where this technique comes in.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  18. #58
    Boolit Master

    Hamish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Edge of The Crab Orchard National Wildlife Refuge
    Posts
    3,569
    Randy,

    I don’t remember seeing you referencing if you hogged the loading port out on any of your tac/HD guns. a few years back I bought the wife a 20ga Tri-Star Raptor and ended up doing about a 50% hog out after she kept complaining of sharp edges and trouble getting into the tube. It really helped even though I didn’t inlet it much.

    For anyone reading this, I 100% recommend the Raptor, it’s a quality made, dirt simple gun that just runs, even super light reloads.
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    Last of the original Group Buy Honcho's.

    "Dueling should have never been made illegal in this country. It settled lots of issues between folks."- Char-Gar

  19. #59
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Posts
    107
    This is a fantastic thread! It’s packed with so much tested information that I expect to reread it many times.

  20. #60
    Moderator

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    9,872
    Quote Originally Posted by Chena View Post
    This is a fantastic thread! It’s packed with so much tested information that I expect to reread it many times.
    This is good because most people haven't figured out that they never will get everything out of a thread without re reading it many times. My First Handloader Magazine (Aug 2007) had the Definitive Article on Loading the .45-70 by Brian Pearce. I have read that article at least 50 times! I still find things I had missed before every time I read it.

    Hamish: all I did to the loading port was radius the sharp edges of it, so it doesn't cut me. I might go deeper some day if I see any significant benefit to it.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check