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Thread: How to Modify a lyman 310 to 30-30 Ackley Improved

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    How to Modify a lyman 310 to 30-30 Ackley Improved

    Long time ago I was here. Back again. Does anyone know how to or modified a 'regular' Lyman 310 cal. 30-30 to do 30-30 AI ? the chamber reamer doesn't look to fit inside the 310 die? Bright ideas? Anyone done it already? Not 310 shop; they don't answer...?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
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    Since the 310 die set necksizes only, you should be able to unscrew the muzzle resizer out a turn or two and use it that way. (When I necksize, especially for cast boolits, I generally only size down the first quarter or third of the neck.) Or, failing that, get a .30-06, .30-40 or .300 Savage muzzle resizer and screw it in deeper.

    The expander die, the decapper die and the primer seating die should work the same, since the base and rim haven’t changed, only the shoulder and case taper.

    Oh, and welcome back.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master
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    My Western Brother-at-Arms, Bent Ramrod told you the secret… it’s only the neck sizing that matters, so if you back the standard 30-30 die out just enough so it doesn’t contact the altered shoulder of the Ackley Improved case, it is highly likely it will work and you won’t be able to see any difference. “Try it, you’ll like it!”

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    As the above experts have stated the standard 310 dies neck size. Lyman made what I believe they called hand dies to resize the whole case, and these were used in a vice or other pressure application equipment. This is what you would have to ream out to get an Ackley size die.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    Perhaps a .308 Win die would work as well. Case length is close, and .308 is larger in diameter than the .30-30 AI

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    The one FL die I have ever had was hard - you'd have to anneal before reaming, then re-harden. I like the idea of finding a .308 muzzle resizer die.
    Cognitive Dissident

  7. #7
    Boolit Man
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    Thanks. Most of my brass and bench stuff got stolen 3years back except some 310s. I got 222, 357, 45-70 and 30-30] for my 222 contender and a couple 30-30AI Handi rifles. Thanks.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Sorry for your misfortune rdlange, but at least the *** hats left you something you can work with. IIRC, you should be able to fire standard 30-30 rounds in those Handi-Rifle barrels to fire form the brass. If you can take newly fired brass from either and have it fit the other, you’ll be good to go with just neck sizing. Otherwise, it would be good to segregate a batch of brass for each barrel and shoot only the brass matched to a given barrel in that one. Neck size, reload, fire and repeat. Many shooters find their best accuracy (and brass life) by this method.

    Likewise, your Contender will probably benefit from just using the same cases over and over, just neck sizing on reloading. Unfortunately, this probably will preclude using brass someone else has fired unless you have a somewhat loose chamber and theirs is tighter.

    If you have that many sets of 310 dies it might also be worth your while to either get a little TruLine Jr press or if you want to use a “real” press some single stage press with an adaptor so you can actually load with a press sometimes if you get tired of squeezing the 310. I’ve used my 310 dies on a TL Jr for cartridges up to your 45-70 size, so I know it works!

    Please come back and let us know how you’re doing with this. We love to talk about 310s here!

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  9. #9
    Boolit Man
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    Seems I forgot alot. More clarification please...

    1. so basically there are the stand alone 'neck sizer dies' requiring also a universal decap die; and the CMR die [my 30-30] doing both things.

    2, A stand alone 308, 06, or any other 30 cal neck sizer die may/will do the job of neck sizing a 30-30 AI if adjusted correctly; they can actually size the neck DOWN for any 30 cal.

    3. Is a CMR die really just a neck sizer die [same internal shape] with a decap rod installed?

    4. So can the combination decap and size die [which I have] be used to neck size only if the decap rod is screwed way back in, or not there?

    5. Or do I really need to get a separate 30 cal neck size only die too?

    More thanks...

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
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    That is a subtle point. I don’t know how much help my answer will be, since IME a lot of those little 310-type dies aren’t made to anywhere near the same precision as the 7/8”x 14 loading dies for the larger presses. Also, over the years, the decapping stems could have been lost and replaced with nonidentical others that fit the dies and work, after a fashion.

    But the CMR dies I find as new in boxes are typically set up like a 7/8” x 14 necksizing die for a standard reloading press. The neck sizer swages the neck down undersized and there is an expanding knob or swell on the decapping stem above the pin. This performed the standard sizing operation for jacketed bullets, allowing the brass to spring back smaller, for a consistent bullet pull.

    The operation with the separate muzzle resizer and decapper allowed the brass to spring back out, hopefully for a decent jacketed bullet fit, but depending on the brass thickness at the neck, the grip on the bullet could vary. Mostly this didn’t matter much, as the average user was probably going to use a separate expander die in his tong tool for cast boolits, and in any case, for hunting and practical shooting the setup was generally fine for jacketed as well. Any mechanical issues with bullet pull could be fixed by the seater/crimper die, so the reloader wouldn’t have trouble with his tube-fed lever action or revolver.

    But the gun mags were starting to examine the subtleties of extreme rifle accuracy by this time, and bullet pull was one of them. Also “straight-line reloading,” which was not possible with the tong tool. The Lyman Company really had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the modern reloading era; they tried to keep the old stuff going as long as possible at minimum expense. So the Tru-Line Jr. was offered, an economy move which could use the old 310 dies in a “straight-line” manner, and had the leverage for the combination muzzle resizer (ie, proper) necksizing operation.

    So whether you could use a CMR die in your 310 tool would depend on the die dimensions, whether you have a bone-crushing handshake, and also on the strength of the handles, since you are squishing the neck undersize and then having to drag it back over the expander button as you pull the handles apart. If the die is properly made, you will wind up with an undersized neck, even for jacketed bullets, if you simply switch decapping stems to one that doesn’t expand. The “M” type die in the set for cast boolits might fix the problem, of course. You’d just have to see whether you can do this. For old blackpowder calibers or pistol cases with thin brass, you might do fine with the CMR as-is. I would expect a pretty tough job if you are doing .270 or .30-06 shells. Your .30-30 shells are somewhere in the middle.

    Of course, if the die dimensions are sloppy enough, you might have no trouble or nothing but trouble, depending. Hope this helps.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master
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    ^^^^ What he said!^^^^
    Sometimes you've got to just try what you've got and see if it works, and if it does, pop the champagne cork. If it doesn't, back up and try something else to see if it's better. As BR says, there is sometimes enough slop for something to cheat its way in and work, sometimes not. As you try things, let us know if something works, or doesn't, and we'll celebrate or commiserate together! or

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    I've just made a couple of custom muzzle resizers for use with nutcracker handles by making up tubular spacers that hold a drill bushing in position to do the actual sizing. These are all 1/2" O.D. and slip into a universal decapper die body. I had to use drill bushings because there weren't any RCBS neck sizer buttons the right size. (The RCBS buttons are also 1/2" O.D., and you will find the correct sizes for .30 caliber in their catalog.)

    One does .25 Stevens brass, the other .32 Long Colt. for the Colt I only size about 1/8" of the neck. Sizing a .30-30, if it needed a lot of shrinking, I might be concerned about whether the hook could extract the case.

    Minor advantage to this trick is that the actual sizing is done by a piece of hardened steel.

    Here is the .32 Long Colt version. A .30-30 version would have a longer lower spacer and a shorter upper one.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I don't show the decapping stem, but for a .30 caliber you might even leave it in.
    Last edited by uscra112; 04-14-2022 at 02:12 AM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Just sketching a .30-30 version in CAD. It looks like the .30-30 is the biggest case that this will work for. The lower spacer wall thickness for the .30-30 family must be only .040" to clear the case. McMaster lists steel .035 wall tube 1/2" OD. 3 feet is only $3.65 but the shipping will be ten times that. Brass can be had in 1-foot lengths, which ship a lot cheaper. Can make it on the lathe, of course.
    Cognitive Dissident

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check