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Thread: Jeff Cooper 45 Auto Load

  1. #61
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have been a lover of firearms and all things connected since I was 15, now 76. Not quite the opinionated know all I was when younger. Life teaches and in those years I've picked up a couple of things that's helped me navigate life and interactions with my fellow man. And I have gotten them from others..authors forgotten.
    "I don't believe all the things I once believe, therefore it would be foolish for all men to agree with me."

    Who is a wise person? One who can learn from everyone.

    Who is a strong man? One who can control himself.

    Who iss a wealthy man? One who is happy with his portion.

    Keith, Skelton, Cooper and all before and after brought something to the table. Maybe it wasn't our dish but they delivered it mostly at their expense of time and effort which the majority of us, and certainly not me, have duplicated. I appreciate it as it gives me new information to consider and possibly explore. For us handloaders I think that is invaluable because it feeds so much of what makes us different than the guy that buys "factory store bought".
    Thanks to all of you on this forum for your contribution of knowledge and experience. Helps to make me a better and safer "gun guy".

  2. #62
    Boolit Master
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    Nicely said, Mr. 50target.

  3. #63
    Boolit Grand Master
    Shiloh's Avatar
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    Way to hot.
    One of the other hot loads is 6 gr. of Bullseye under a 200 gr SWC. 6.5+ gr. of Unique. Both are too hot.
    4.4 gr. of Bullseye is plenty.
    Shiloh
    Je suis Charlie

    "A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves."
    Bertrand de Jouvenel

    “Any government that does not trust its citizens with firearms is either a tyranny, or planning to become one.” – Joseph P. Martino

    “If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert , in five years there would be a shortage of sand.” – Milton Friedman

    "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns; why should we let them have ideas?" - J. Stalin

  4. #64
    Boolit Master
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    Plenty for what? Have you read Larry Gibsons pressure data on the 45 auto and Col Coopers loads?

  5. #65
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank505 View Post
    Plenty for what? Have you read Larry Gibsons pressure data on the 45 auto and Col Coopers loads?
    One must remember that there are those that are sensitive to recoil etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
    My buddy who was a Master Class NRA Bullseye shooter used 4 grains of Bullseye with a H&G 68.
    Plenty is a relative term.
    Keep that in mind.

  6. #66
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    Col cooper’s 45 loads are not designed for putting holes in paper.

  7. #67
    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterAZ View Post
    The 7.5 gr Unique load could possibly be a "frame cracker", but the H&G 68 load with 4.2 grains of Bullseye is a winner.

    Most accurate load I have shot in a 1911.
    "Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"


    Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...

  8. #68
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank505 View Post
    Col cooper’s 45 loads are not designed for putting holes in paper.
    That would be obvious. To those who are familiar with Cooper.

  9. #69
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    Has anyone every used Tightgroup instead of Bullseye in 45ACP?

    200 grain LSWC 5.4 grains 957 FPS 16,800 CUP

    230 grain LRN 4.8 grains 855 FPS 17,000 CUP

    Being a pretty fast powder it seems to favor the lighter 200 grain bullet, like bullseye.

    These aren't +P loads either which is certainly 7.5 grains of Unique in a 200-230 grain bullet according to Alliant.

    In my limited experience (38SPL/357MAG) Tightgroup is cleaner than even the NEW, CLEANER BURNING unique. The most accurate handgun load I ever devised was 3.2 grains of Tightgrop and 148 grain Lee TumbleLube wadcutter in 38 SPL.

  10. #70
    Boolit Buddy Nick Adams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank505 View Post
    Col cooper’s 45 loads are not designed for putting holes in paper.
    Which is hard to do anyway with over-pressured handloads likely to crack frames, bust brass, and shorten spring life.

  11. #71
    Boolit Master
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    Mr Adams
    Have you looked at Larry Gibsons pressure data on the 45 ACP? I suggest you do, instead of reiterating useless comments

  12. #72
    Boolit Bub Jungle Dave's Avatar
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    6.4 grs Unique is my load. Matches the military ball. Lee even has the yellow dipper for it if you reload slow like I do. There is no way I'd ever go with 7.5 grns....EVER

  13. #73
    Boolit Master
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    I’ve been working on loads for my Combat Commander lately using 230/240 gr bullets. Tried the RCBS 230-CM bullet (actual weight 228 gr) using 7.0gr of Unique and got 987 fps (too hot for me). I settled on 6.2 gr of Unique at 884 fps. Also loaded the Lee 230 TC (actual weight 240 gr with my alloy) with 5.7 gr of Unique @ 850 fps. Even though I’m using a shock buffer I believe this is about the upper limit for me.

  14. #74
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    Cooper's defense load was 7.5 gr of Unique under a 200 gr SWC, not under a 230 - 240 gr bullet.

    Under the 200 gr cast SWC it is a very good load for use in M1911 45 ACPs. Not for general practice and plinking but for SD and hunting.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  15. #75
    Boolit Master
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    Are we sure it was a 200 grain SWC and not a 215 grain SWC?
    Absolutely a 200 grain with no possibility a 215 grain such as the H&G #78?
    I have read the 215 grain weight in other articles.. Maybe they were wrong

  16. #76
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    I believe you are right. I think it was a 215. I think either one will work. I think his 230gr cast load was 7.2, but it has been more than a week ago so I could be wrong. I was loading 7.0 with a 452374 and I went to a match. They had a pendulum set up and a guy asked me what load it was, I told him and he said it wouldn't pass. I told him to shoot it. No problem. He said he guessed it would be alright but I needed to use more next time. I just smiled and went on.
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
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    Gary D. Peek

  17. #77
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Yes, Cooper's personal choice (as stated in Jeff Cooper on Handguns) was the 215 gr SWC. However, that bullet was not readily available to the public and it did not feed well in unaltered commercial M1911s. Thus, in his magazine writings he recommended the 200 - 205 gr H&G 68 over the same 7.5 gr of Unique for 1000+ fps out of a 5" M1911.

    He also was adamant that a .40 cal SWC or larger bullet of 200 gr at 1000 fps +/- would be the quite adequate considering power and controllability in a handgun. Thats what we saw with his origianl 10mm cartridge and the midrange .41 Magnum cartridge. It's also what the .40 S&W has evolved into.

    When the Hornady 230 gr TC bullet came out he recommended that bullet but I'm not sure with what charge of what powder(?).

    Cooper's recommendations often changed as newer developments came. If he were alive today I'm quite sure he would recommend the current reliable expanding HPs. He might not even look so askance at the 9mm......
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  18. #78
    Boolit Buddy Nick Adams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Dave View Post
    6.4 grs Unique is my load. Matches the military ball.
    4.9-5.0grns of Bullseye duplicates the 230grn Mil hard-ball ammo.

    No need to push that bullet any faster unless you're a risk-taker.

  19. #79
    Boolit Master
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    ...frame cracking...risk taking...brass bursting...with a .45 ACP...really?

    If a 1911 platform can be made to run with 10mm, 9x23 Winchester, .45 Super, .40 Super, etc. and we hear nothing from especially the 10mm shooters about cracked frames the problem doesn't exist...

    Will it happen once in a while...sure...but with the millions of guns and shooters out there if there was a major issue there would be hundreds of posts on the 1911 forums about it...

    Bob

  20. #80
    Boolit Master



    ddixie884's Avatar
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    So true.
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
    gary@2texastrucks.com
    Gary D. Peek

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check