Can God ask too much?

[Char-Gar]

This world is a refining process for us. We get fed in and cycled through the process. The good end product gets shipped out and the waste gets burned off. If you make the grade you're good to go.

As involved as we become in this world and in this life, still, we came here to die.
That's the way I see it so from that perspective I can't help but wonder how much knowledge Abraham had been provided.

Excellent illustration of an eternal truth. I am certain Abraham knew as much as you and I and also knew how to survive the refining process.

[Pepe le PewPew]

Folks, some other thoughts.
Just mine don’t claim divine interpretations.
I think that perhaps God was teaching additional things as well.
Human sacrifice was quite common in those days.
NOT making Abraham follow through, and providing a lesser sacrifice not only proved Gods provision but differentiated HIM from the local gods.

[Char-Gar]

Folks, some other thoughts.
Just mine don’t claim divine interpretations.
I think that perhaps God was teaching additional things as well.
Human sacrifice was quite common in those days.
NOT making Abraham follow through, and providing a lesser sacrifice not only proved Gods provision but differentiated HIM from the local gods.

I don't claim "divine interpretations" but I will claim deep knowledge of Scripture. I have spent the last 53 years as a student and teacher of the Bible. If a fellow doesn't know the difference between fact and opinion by that time, there is no hope for him.

There are some threads that run throughout all of Scripture, both NT and OT. Abrahamic Faith is one such powerful thread which forms the gold standard for understanding Judeo-Christian concept of faith.

Lots of folks opine and guess and some folks know. Scriptural truth is not elastic or Playdough that folks can mold and form into whatever they wish. If we wish to claim Biblical faith, then we must first know what that is.

[MT Gianni]

When struggling with this story, remember Abraham's history with God. God called Abraham out of his tent and told him to look at all the stars in they sky and promised him that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars. His wife Sarah was way, way past child bearing age and she had never had a child. Abraham himself was well into geezerhood. God was promising to Abraham the impossible and he came through with Issacs.

Abraham took God as His word, even though God had promised the impossible. Abraham's faith was radical and extreme, believing in the impossible when it was promised by God. Issac was the product of that starry night promise and now Abraham was being asked to cut off his line entirely. The sacrifice made no sense whatsoever, still Abraham had faith in the goodness and nature of God and was willing to obey, his obedience was radical and extreme.

The promise was made to Sarah as well. Abraham had other children, Sarah did not. When he and Isaac walked to the place of sacrifice Abraham had to ask if God kept his promises. If so, no need to sacrifice because he would be stopped. If not, no point in the sacrifice.

[Char-Gar]

The promise was made to Sarah as well. Abraham had other children, Sarah did not. When he and Isaac walked to the place of sacrifice Abraham had to ask if God kept his promises. If so, no need to sacrifice because he would be stopped. If not, no point in the sacrifice.

Yes, Abraham had other children. The "promise" passed through Issac the child of Sarah and Abraham. A study of the OT will show this "promise" is reissued several times. It is easy to lose the ball in the high weeds and get bogged down in what if and maybe so, and could have been. The main thing, the ball to watch, is the "promise" and the nature of Abrahamic faith. These things take on a life and are carried though Scripture in it's entirety. The rest of the stuff is left by the roadside. Fun to speculate, but nothing there upon which to build a redemptive faith.

Preachers love to put a truth in a morter and grind it into as many fragments as possible. They get more sermons that way and seem much smarter to find these hidden truths which most often are not relevant to the main point of the truth. But, I digress....

[Pepe le PewPew]

I don't claim "divine interpretations" but I will claim deep knowledge of Scripture. I have spent the last 53 years as a student and teacher of the Bible. If a fellow doesn't know the difference between fact and opinion by that time, there is no hope for him.

There are some threads that run throughout all of Scripture, both NT and OT. Abrahamic Faith is one such powerful thread which forms the gold standard for understanding Judeo-Christian concept of faith.

Lots of folks opine and guess and some folks know. Scriptural truth is not elastic or Playdough that folks can mold and form into whatever they wish. If we wish to claim Biblical faith, then we must first know what that is.

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but two things: one, how does what I said contradict anything you or scripture states?
Two, you speak as if I have brought heresy to the table and that 53 years of your studying has closed the understanding of the cannon.
Pharisees were similar.
I will not get into a chest or Bible thumping match with a self proclaimed expert.
There are many historical contextual clues to understanding scripture, all I did was comment on one.
Be blessed.

[Char-Gar]

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but two things: one, how does what I said contradict anything you or scripture states?
Two, you speak as if I have brought heresy to the table and that 53 years of your studying has closed the understanding of the cannon.
Pharisees were similar.
I will not get into a chest or Bible thumping match with a self proclaimed expert.
There are many historical contextual clues to understanding scripture, all I did was comment on one.
Be blessed.

Say What? You did not contradict anything I said, nor did you being heresy to the table. In fact nothing I said was in response to anything you said. I am known to take opportunities to enlarge conservations and take the conservation else where. That is what I did in this case. I certainly had no intention to "straighten you out" as I didn't see anything that needed to be straightened.

I am truly sorry that I offended you for that was not my intent. I just thought I was talking to a fellow on the same wave length as I, and things would be understood in the context of such a conversation. I committed the sin of assumption and that is my bad. However, it the truth be told, your reply contained several false assumptions about me. But let's not push that issue and go our separate ways in peace.

[truckjohn]

This is a difficult question, but one at the very center of our faith.

Remember the "Forbidden Fruit" in the garden of Eden was "Knowledge of good and evil." Rephrased, a "Moral compass" that operates independently of God's.

Neither can we see the bigger picture of the future effect, nor can we see what's already been going on outside of our concern.

King Saul could not bring himself to commit genocide against the Amalekites, and it was considered wickedness. Note that he later decided it was perfectly OK to commit genocide against his own people. There's man's moral compass at work.

So, how about the present, for example? We have soft hearted groups rushing aid into war torn areas, including right into the middle of wars... Yet the food and resources are stolen by the armies and it PROLONGS the suffering of the innocent because it enables the war to continue indefinitely, rather than forcing an end when one side starves out.

[Eddie Southgate]

No , I would not kill my child or any other member of my family . I'd just have to suffer whatever comes from my disobedience.

[wv109323]

Abraham had been promised his seed would come through Isaac as the sands of the sea. Abraham had enough faith to believe in his sons resurection if he followed God's direct command.
Abraham had the faith to foresee resurection and we have to have the faith to believe in Christ's resurection.
God can not ask us to offer a sacrifice, because Christ's sacrifice is for all and final.

[1hole]

Remember the "Forbidden Fruit" in the garden of Eden was "Knowledge of good and evil." Rephrased, a "Moral compass" that operates independently of God's.

Correct.

Few people seem to grasp that Adam and Eve were drawn to that "fruit" because they wanted to decide what was "good or evil" - i.e., right or wrong - for themselves, not just trust and obey their heavenly father in faith that He knows what's best for his children. And that rebellion is still the starting motivation of those who know about but choose to reject God.

Childish stubborn "smart" people effectively stamp their feet and tell God, "Hey, I'm all grown up and really smart myself now so I know what's right and wrong for me better than you, therefore you're not going to be the boss of ME!" That's the core of what spiritual naysayers think they're "thinking". But ... it's some really dumb thinking, even for a child.

* This world is a mess, please come quickly Lord Jesus!

[Char-Gar]

Correct.

Few people seem to grasp that Adam and Eve were drawn to that "fruit" because they wanted to decide what was "right or wrong" for themselves, not just trust and obey their father in faith that He knows best. And that rebellion is still the starting motivation of those who know about but choose to reject God.

Childish "smart" people effectively tell God, "Hey, you know I'm really smart myself so I know what's right and wrong better than you; therefore, you're not going to be the boss of ME!" That's what they think they're "thinking" but ... it's some really dumb thinking, even for a child.

* This world is a mess, please come quickly Lord Jesus!

Dead spot on! The essence and nature of sin is "self deification" i.e. becoming one's own god/moral authority. God reserved that to himself.

[Bigslug]

Wasn't it Hitler's SS, or one of Stalin's units, that had recruits raise, train, and bond with a puppy. . .only to order them to shoot their new best friend in the head to ensure that the graduate would obey orders from "the authority" without question? Seems that Abraham was a likely model, and a worthy warning for us to beware of "true believers" of any stripe, as they are just an unthinking tool crafted to serve another's purpose.

As a non-believing / highly doubting sort, God actually showing up and asking ANYTHING of us is one of my main sticking points, but if he did, and that was what was asked, I'd have a few questions:

1. Why does God need to test my faith? He's GOD - doesn't he KNOW?

2. What would be my standing in the community if my reaction was ANYTHING but telling God he could go perform an anatomical impossibility with himself?

3. If "The Plan" requires my child to die, would not a humane God be able to come up with a triggerman who would come to the party with less angst? Cancer, a brain aneurysm, failed brakes on a city bus, a mugger in the night? Take your pick.

4. In the "Ha! Ha! Just kidding!" scenario of Abraham, I see a couple likely outcomes:

(a.) Abraham's faith is going to be severely shaken, and he'll be left wondering if continuing to follow the sick Reichsmarshall who asked him to shoot his puppy is really what he wants to be doing.

(b.) Abraham's kid is going to have a very hard time trusting his dad ever again, and is likely to give Satan a call, opening the conversation with "Tell me more about this revolution of yours - that God guy is NUTS!"

In this scenario, God is asking you to do something that God himself programmed you to reject as WRONG. To be fair, I'm not sailing from the same dock as your theological boat, let alone riding in it, but I'd have little use for such a malevolent lying/trickster bastard. "Moving in mysterious ways" is not for me.

It IS a good point of discussion.

[Shanghai Jack]

Can God ask too much?

He gave us Biden-Harris, of course he can

[Good Cheer]

Wasn't it Hitler's SS, or one of Stalin's units, that had recruits raise, train, and bond with a puppy. . .only to order them to shoot their new best friend in the head to ensure that the graduate would obey orders from "the authority" without question? Seems that Abraham was a likely model, and a worthy warning for us to beware of "true believers" of any stripe, as they are just an unthinking tool crafted to serve another's purpose.

As a non-believing / highly doubting sort, God actually showing up and asking ANYTHING of us is one of my main sticking points, but if he did, and that was what was asked, I'd have a few questions:

1. Why does God need to test my faith? He's GOD - doesn't he KNOW?

2. What would be my standing in the community if my reaction was ANYTHING but telling God he could go perform an anatomical impossibility with himself?

3. If "The Plan" requires my child to die, would not a humane God be able to come up with a triggerman who would come to the party with less angst? Cancer, a brain aneurysm, failed brakes on a city bus, a mugger in the night? Take your pick.

4. In the "Ha! Ha! Just kidding!" scenario of Abraham, I see a couple likely outcomes:

(a.) Abraham's faith is going to be severely shaken, and he'll be left wondering if continuing to follow the sick Reichsmarshall who asked him to shoot his puppy is really what he wants to be doing.

(b.) Abraham's kid is going to have a very hard time trusting his dad ever again, and is likely to give Satan a call, opening the conversation with "Tell me more about this revolution of yours - that God guy is NUTS!"

In this scenario, God is asking you to do something that God himself programmed you to reject as WRONG. To be fair, I'm not sailing from the same dock as your theological boat, let alone riding in it, but I'd have little use for such a malevolent lying/trickster bastard. "Moving in mysterious ways" is not for me.

It IS a good point of discussion.

OK, you're not smart enough to be God but we already knew that.

[Gobeyond]

He doesn’t ask too much but sometimes it sure seems like it.

[1hole]

Seems that Abraham was a likely model, and a worthy warning for us to beware of "true believers" of any stripe, as they are just an unthinking tool crafted to serve another's purpose.

Spiritual things are spiritually perceived. We believers know and see things from inside the family of God so we have a totally different spiritual insight and perspective on what's important from you.

As a non-believing / highly doubting sort, God actually showing up and asking ANYTHING of us is one of my main sticking points, but if he did, and that was what was asked, I'd have a few questions:

1. Why does God need to test my faith? He's GOD - doesn't he KNOW?

2. What would be my standing in the community if my reaction was ANYTHING but telling God he could go perform an anatomical impossibility with himself?

3. If "The Plan" requires my child to die, would not a humane God be able to come up with a triggerman who would come to the party with less angst? Cancer, a brain aneurysm, failed brakes on a city bus, a mugger in the night? Take your pick.

4. In the "Ha! Ha! Just kidding!" scenario of Abraham, I see a couple likely outcomes:

(a.) Abraham's faith is going to be severely shaken, and he'll be left wondering if continuing to follow the sick Reichsmarshall who asked him to shoot his puppy is really what he wants to be doing.

Relax, both Isaak and your puppy are quite safe. God is making you a very nice eternal life offer at this time but he sure isn't going to ask you for anything. The choice of accepting God's gift of eternal heaven by way of Jesus' atoning blood sacrifice of himself for payment of your sin penalty - and not Isaak or a ram - in your place is your's alone. (See John 3:16-18 and think about it carefully, making the wrong decision has horrific long term consequences.)

You have a massively wrong interpretation of what was happening on Mt. Moriah that day. But, skipping a lot of important stuff, even you would have to agree that God obviously had no plan for Isaac to be sacrificed so your specious speculations have no meaning.

So, what was in play that day?

Well, it's clear to me that God gave those two men absolute assurance that trusting in Him gives his followers spiritual comfort even in the worst of life's situations. AND, by rational extension, that blessed "peace like a river" truth applies to the rest of his followers as well. It applies to me and I know a lot of other old people but I know of no Christian who fears death!

(b.) Abraham's kid is going to have a very hard time trusting his dad ever again, and is likely to give Satan a call, opening the conversation with "Tell me more about this revolution of yours - that God guy is NUTS!"

Nuts. Abraham's grown kid had to have known the stories about himself since infancy and obviously trusted God's future promises. Thus, Isaac had the same level of trust in the God who confirmed exactly the same spiritual lesson to both of them.

In this scenario, God is asking you to do something that God himself programmed you to reject as WRONG.

And, again, it should be clear even to people like you that the spiritual example was made and God has never asked that of anyone else. And even then He clearly had no intention of allowing Isaak to be slain so your well thought out speculations are in vain.

[Good Cheer]

Yeah, to piggyback on things said before, sometimes what He sets before you with can seem overwhelming. We get comfortable with where ever we are and stepping out of that "place" can be scary. People can freeze up, not taking any action 'cause like Yogi Berra said, you got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there.
But it's a choice God is giving you. And like Berra said about coming to a fork in the road, you should take it.

Have faith in God and the scary turns into something else.

[William Yanda]

From the title question I did not expect Abraham's experience to be the subject. My initial response is that God promised that His strength is sufficient for us. Are you calling him a liar?
I identify with the father who approached Christ on behalf of his child. "Lord, I believe, help Thou my unbelief."