Joe the 3 large lube grooves would be less aerodynamic than the same bullet profile with 4 or 5. So as the range gets farther and the bullet slows down it starts to loose stability.
Interestly enough put that same RCBS bullet in a 110 and it will shoot to 1000 rather nicely.
Long range rules, the rest drool.
thanks!!!!Originally Posted by Don McDowell
So today I tried a couple of different charge weights, up to 66gns.
Accuracy is good at around 1.3" for 3 shots at 100yds.
The excessive fouling still remains the same and prevents me from chambering a second cartridge. Even with 20% Crisco added to the lube mix.
I should have taken a pic of the patches but didn't think of it while at he range. Admittedly I am very green with regards to black powder but I expected very black patches, not a mass of residue being pushed out in front of the patch.
Thoughts?
I used up all my good ideas - am inclined to blame the Wano powder
If you can hold that 1.3" group for a longer string of shots - cleaning each shot might be not such a chore?
Do you wanna pm me your address I can send a handful of those CBE boolits and some HDPE wads to try ?
What part of QLD? Bad Ass Wallace might help you out if you not too far away from him to visit.
Anneal the cartridge case necks, to better seal against fouling blow back.
Dry brush the chamber particularly were the bullet will be, to sweep the crud out of the way.
Duplex your Wano powder charge with just one or two grains of a medium burn rate pistol powder, makes more gas and heat.
Use a Magnum primer to make more heat to burn more throughly the charcoal in the Wano powder, same for the duplex loading more heat in your heat engine.
Last edited by greenjoytj; 03-22-2022 at 08:05 PM.
Duplex will work but its not legal in competitions - downunder anyway - if a second round will not chamber there is something basic screwed up that needs figuring out -
there is no alternative to the Wano powder so changing that is out
the boolits are suspect even though he is getting good grouping - what is suspect ? hard cast - proly deficient in amount of lube
neck anneal ? sure - thats a good idea 99/100.
dont neck size the brass unless it wont chamber in a clean gun - just need some crimp to stop the boolit falling out
a single cereal box wad ? I would change that up to something more solid - tablet backing at the least - (I am using HDPE poly wads to good effect - cut em .460 so they a tight fit in case neck and bore - thats a crud scraper and gas check right there.)
If ole mate Wallace is within range I would organise a visit - that bloke knows his stuff and got some nice gear to drool over as well.
Nah Joe, this is a scrapper wad.
When the fire is lit the wad expands and it cleans the fouling
whatareyadoin to me ? they got a hole in the middle!Nah Joe, this is a scrapper wad.
When the fire is lit the wad expands and it cleans the fouling
all the gas is gonna sqirt through there an proly drill a hole thru da boolit
- ole timey washers for the close over end of copper rivets used in harness making and leather drive belts on old machinery -
would be handy if ya told me where ya buy these - they unobtainium where I shop!
You punch them out with a die like a press mounted wad punch.
Or you might check with Corbin swage they might still offer them.
They are called base guards.
They have been in use since the 1800rds
They are designed to be swaged on the pure lead pistol bullet base and can be shot at 800 fps without lube.
Last edited by Lead pot; 03-19-2022 at 10:31 PM.
Ha! got me! eyes are playin tricks! that lil dimple sure as heck looked like a hole! No wonder the bullseye is gettin harder to hit eh!You punch them out with a die like a press mounted wad punch.
Or you might check with Corbin swage they might still offer them.
They are called base guards.
They have been in use since the 1800rds
They are designed to be swaged on the pure lead pistol bullet base and can be shot at 800 fps without lube.
so a gascheck without the cup sides ? kinda?
I've been full length sizing every time. Should I only be sizing when they start getting tight?
This morning I annealed all my empties so will see how that goes. Also read somewhere that the greater the charge, the cleaner the burn so I might try a bit more powder.
Might as well try different wads as suggested.
I'm very reluctant to use duplex loads. I've heard some horror stories about them and I'm not yet experienced enough with black powder. Duplex loads in theory sound like they may fix the problem, but plenty of blokes get by without having to do this and I kinda want to get to the root of the problem. Plus as Indian Joe says, not allowed in comps.
Stay tuned for further results.
This has been an informative read. Lots of good ideas.
Something I think I would try would be seat the bullet just a little deeper. If your accuracy stays good and you can chamber your next round without any cleaning, it seems you would have the results you're after without too much trouble. I have had rounds that worked perfectly when I cleaned every shot, but if I got in a hurry and tried shooting 2 or 3 without cleaning they were much harder to chamber.
May not solve the real problem whether it be lube issue etc, but if your main goal is to shoot again without cleaning, I bet this would work.
I was new to BPCR last year and kind of had the same idea of shooting my stage without cleaning, but a few old timers who helped me along the way said absolutely not. They demanded I wipe between each shot so that is what I did. You mention hitting rams and not hunting so maybe if everything you have is working for you except shooting without cleaning, maybe just resort to wiping each shot. It isn't as big a deal as it seems at first.
I was worried I wouldn't have time for all that and still get off 10 shots, but from my 1st match I have been able to get off all 10 with time to spare.
1 other thought I don't think you've mentioned, when you do wipe, does the fouling feel like its caked on or is relatively easy to wipe out? If it cleans out easy I'd say your lube is ok. If it feels like its burnt onto the bore then it may be time to tinker with the lube recipe. Like Country Gent mentioned above, I also use Emmert's Improved and really like it.
Whichever way you go, best of luck. It's been cool hearing all the good ideas and suggestions.
Last edited by hawkenhunter50; 03-20-2022 at 04:42 AM.
......
Last edited by indian joe; 03-20-2022 at 07:36 AM.
Don't bother full length sizing each time. If you want to size them, back the die out 3 turns and partially size them. All of my rifles shoot very well that way, with minimal neck tension ( 0.001" ). In silhouette you'll have lots of time to wipe if you are organised. I wipe two damp patches between shots. I don't bother drying the chamber between shots in .40-65 or .45-70, but I do with the longer cases. Just use a patch that is not too wet.
Are you using a drop tube and a compression die? If it were me, I'd want to get lots of that Wano in the case to get the velocity up. I'd try drop tubing and then compressing 0.275 -> 0.3" or so and see how it shoots. The key is to get the tightest vertical possible at the turkey and ram line. Then learn to read the wind and mirage for the horizontal.
Chris.
I use a drop tube and a compression plug for my neck expander die.
How much compression is too much? I have to seat the bullet a minimum of .725" to be able to chamber and 66gns feels like a lot of compression.
Hawkenhunter50, it is easily wiped out and doesn't feel rough or caked in there.
When I get this sorted I'll probably be patching between shots anyway, but something is not right and I just have to know what.
Last edited by Silhouette; 03-20-2022 at 03:50 PM.
To measure compression I drop the charge in the case and hand seat the wad on top of it till it touches firm measure down from the case mith to it and then compress to depth measure again and thats the compression. I also use a drop tube with a slow and compression plug.
When I was using Goex compression was around .250 wano may take even a little more.
I would also consider trying different primers one may ignite better than others. I have seen pictures of just primers being fired and some have a "cloud" of white hot particles in them while other are a jet of flame with few of the particles.
Compression - just for fun
took a fired FL resized 45/70 case, drop tubed 66.5 grains of Goex 5FA (Wano is a tad denser from memory but almost nothing in it) insert 45 thou HDPE wad to top of powder - measured .250 case mouth to wad - compressed another .250 with my single stage super simplex press until measured .500 to top of wad - effort required was 35 pound at the knob end of the press handle (I measure that with a luggage scale) so that is enough to seat the CBE 535 grain boolit with one lube groove exposed. I consider this reasonably heavy compression but not excessive - at that point the powder is quite compacted - to get the further 1/8' or so we need to seat the boolit with all grooves in the case would need at least double the effort on the press handle - (you would not notice that with a compound lever press - just hear the powder going "scrunch" in the case and maybe a bit of a squeak)
This test pretty much fits with Country Gents experience of .250 compression - fireformed cases might gain a couple grains depending on the cut of the chamber.
I loaded and firedcouple at 68gns yesterday at home (I live on acreage) and the annealed cases came out remarkably clean, which indicates good expansion. The second round still could not be chambered.
Looking up the barrel, I think what is happening is the "loose" fouling is falling back into the chamber as I eject the case.
Trying to attach a pic of the patch and the loose stuff that fell out of the muzzle in front of the patch.
More powde might help but it looks like your lube is still pretty hard
Long range rules, the rest drool.
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