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Thread: Beginning in BPCR

  1. #21
    Boolit Mold bandanaman's Avatar
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    When I got the bug I opted for a Pedersoli 1874 Billy's sharps. Budget was the main factor and the fact besides which end was which I didn't know anything about them other than they caught my eye at the sportsman shows way back when. I could never resist buying a ticket. All that said as country gent suggested I fell out of love with the the mid range Pedersoli soule sight before long and went to a MVA. I feel the rifle the rifle shoots better than I can and have no complaints at all. I have not had the opportunity however to shoot a higher end rifle and thus far have not been spoiled....The matches are where you can find a huge gene pool and learn tons in a very short time from some of the nicest people you could meet...all willing to help...

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master

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    If you plan to shoot in NRA matches any time watch the weight on the pedersolis some are over what the nra allows in silhouette matches.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandanaman View Post
    When I got the bug I opted for a Pedersoli 1874 Billy's sharps. Budget was the main factor and the fact besides which end was which I didn't know anything about them other than they caught my eye at the sportsman shows way back when. I could never resist buying a ticket. All that said as country gent suggested I fell out of love with the the mid range Pedersoli soule sight before long and went to a MVA. I feel the rifle the rifle shoots better than I can and have no complaints at all. I have not had the opportunity however to shoot a higher end rifle and thus far have not been spoiled....The matches are where you can find a huge gene pool and learn tons in a very short time from some of the nicest people you could meet...all willing to help...
    If you dont mind tellin ---what was it about the pedersoli sight ?

  4. #24
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by semtav View Post
    Browning/Winchester BPCR 1885 in 40-65 or 45-70.

    Sent from my E7110 using Tapatalk
    What he said. These rifles are the best value going. They come with great sights too. My son is working on his Master Class with his 40-65. He only has to shoot one more score to get there.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by semtav View Post
    Browning/Winchester BPCR 1885 in 40-65 or 45-70.

    Sent from my E7110 using Tapatalk
    That's what I would recommend as well.

    Chris.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    If you dont mind tellin ---what was it about the pedersoli sight ?
    They are junk, difficult to manage in fast changing conditions.

    You never see them on the firing line, at any major match. Because they never survive their first usage in any timed event. Only a new inexperienced shooter will attempt them in a match. Once in that baptism of fire, they are soon gone replaced with a quality sight.

    Kenny Wasserburger

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    One of the most important parts of a Soule sight, other than it being mechanically sound and not sloppy, is the way the markings are done. They need to be very precisely done and machined perfectly. On the staff, the drum, and the windage marks. In addition to sloppiness, this is where a lot of sights let you down. I've owned a bunch of different brands ( Pedersoli, Shaver, C. Sharps, Riflesmith, AMT) and after learning the hard way, I'll never buy anything but MVA when it comes to a rear sight. I have heard that the Baldwin and Kelly sights are comparable but haven't used them. The MVA's are cheaper once you realize you'll probably sell the others at a loss when you upgrade .

    With that said, if you aren't going to compete and mostly shoot informally, you can get by with any of them including the Pedersoli. But even then, if your sight develops excess backlash in the windage drum you might be less than happy.

    Chris.

  8. #28
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    I don't think Kermit is still producing sights but I really like my Hoke sights.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    I don't think Kermit is still producing sights but I really like my Hoke sights.
    I could be wrong, but I thought I heard his son was taking over and would still be making them. Don't have one but looked one over and it did seem very nice.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunlaker View Post
    One of the most important parts of a Soule sight, other than it being mechanically sound and not sloppy, is the way the markings are done. They need to be very precisely done and machined perfectly. On the staff, the drum, and the windage marks. In addition to sloppiness, this is where a lot of sights let you down. I've owned a bunch of different brands ( Pedersoli, Shaver, C. Sharps, Riflesmith, AMT) and after learning the hard way, I'll never buy anything but MVA when it comes to a rear sight. I have heard that the Baldwin and Kelly sights are comparable but haven't used them. The MVA's are cheaper once you realize you'll probably sell the others at a loss when you upgrade .

    With that said, if you aren't going to compete and mostly shoot informally, you can get by with any of them including the Pedersoli. But even then, if your sight develops excess backlash in the windage drum you might be less than happy.

    Chris.
    so this is homemade - I have not had opportunity to shoot a time event yet (one coming up in August) - cant see good enough to properly line up those little squinchy markings no matter how precisely they are machined - if I tried it would mean shooting glasses off, readers on, adjust sight, change glasses back etc. gonna blow my time away!
    I calibrated the elevation and windage screws so I know the value of each sector marking in MOA on the target - then all I got to do is remember those two numbers (elevation for this rifle and sight is 2.3moa per full turn) - this is simple and I am still trying to figure out why it wont work as well as lines scribed on the staff?
    Since the picture I have added a lock screw to the windage on this sight so we dont get that backlash problem.
    Hadlee eyecup off a parker hale SMLE sight - have another same setup on my sharps - just change the eyecup over
    MVA landed here proly gonna leave hamburger change out of 700bucks - importation permits and several months wait.
    My homemade proly about on par with a Pedersoli - charge my time - proly didnt save anything - but I made it
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by indian joe; 04-15-2022 at 01:34 AM.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Wow! No too many of us can make our own sights, definitely not me

    Chris.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    so this is homemade - I have not had opportunity to shoot a time event yet (one coming up in August) - cant see good enough to properly line up those little squinchy markings no matter how precisely they are machined - if I tried it would mean shooting glasses off, readers on, adjust sight, change glasses back etc. gonna blow my time away!
    I calibrated the elevation and windage screws so I know the value of each sector marking in MOA on the target - then all I got to do is remember those two numbers (elevation for this rifle and sight is 2.3moa per full turn) - this is simple and I am still trying to figure out why it wont work as well as lines scribed on the staff?
    Since the picture I have added a lock screw to the windage on this sight so we dont get that backlash problem.
    Hadlee eyecup off a parker hale SMLE sight - have another same setup on my sharps - just change the eyecup over
    MVA landed here proly gonna leave hamburger change out of 700bucks - importation permits and several months wait.
    My homemade proly about on par with a Pedersoli - charge my time - proly didnt save anything - but I made it
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	soule sight.jpg 
Views:	58 
Size:	42.6 KB 
ID:	299000
    Wow, first of all the lines you say aren’t necessarily allow precise and repeatable sight settings that can be recorded for reference from one day to the next. Or to record differences in loads elevation settings. Knowing how much exactly the difference in a head wind condition vrs a tail wind or even a hard side wind.

    Another example is a total reversal in wind, say a hard left to right that requires 7 MOA of left wind. Then reversed to a 3 or 4 o’clock right to left that required going to mechanical or it should also be your no wind Zero. Set up before the match that little line you think isn’t necessary. You now need 5 MOA right of that. Your no wind zero especially if you’re shootings 1000 yards needs to be set to compensate the 3 MOA spin drift correction.

    I can go on, with the necessary requirements of a precise set of markings for these issues.

    You have obviously never competed in any kind of real distance competition.

    Thinking those little lines, aren’t necessary, you suffer from something called hubris, and you have a real bad case of it.

    With reference marks your homemade tool, which looks well done might be serviceable. Without any such, you will have very difficult issues in the heat of competition.

    Honestly, and with no malice intended, you haven’t a clue, what your handicapped with this setup.

    KW

  13. #33
    Boolit Mold
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    Tim Hoke, Kermit's son, is making the sight and they are excellent. There is a website or I don't mind helping you get in touch if want to e-mail me. I also have MVA rear, Lee Shaver and Jim Kelly sights (front and rear) and like them all.

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy
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    Too bad Mr Wasserburger can't share his considerable knowledge without being rude or insulting. Sad indeed.

    Dave

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
    Too bad Mr Wasserburger can't share his considerable knowledge without being rude or insulting. Sad indeed.

    Dave
    Honesty often isn’t well received.

    Wasn’t addressing you either. Best he gets honest answers, instead of cheering him on to failure.

    He built a good looking sight but really lacks some real experiences.

    I said no malice intended.

    Kenny W.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
    Too bad Mr Wasserburger can't share his considerable knowledge without being rude or insulting. Sad indeed.

    Dave
    It appears his reputation among the BPCR crowd is well deserved. It is sad
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Kenny is exactly right without good reference marks on a sight in switching winds a shooter can get lost in the weeds off the taget rather suddenly
    One relay at the desert International last month we went from 12 right to 28 left with a couple of stops at zero and that was in a span of about 35 minutes and 15 shots for record
    Kenny’s reputation with the majority of bpcr shooters is rock solid to the good side


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    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    You can definitely tell who's got a good dead wind zero, and has compensated for spin drift, when the wind reverses . Getting that sorted out and being confident of it is necessary otherwise you will definitely have a bad day at distance. Spin drift even comes to play a little bit at the ram line but unless you are getting reversals a lot of people won't notice it. This is one of the reasons that you really need a high quality sight that is repeatable, readable, and free of backlash as much as possible.

    Kenny speaks the truth like usual. You might not like his style, but he won't steer you wrong. He's one of a small group that is happy to share everything he's learned along the way. I've learned a lot from him and the rest of the Wyoming folks.

    I am still impressed Joe by you making your own sight though. A couple of years ago we had a guy show up with a Winchester highwall that he'd built from scratch ( including making the action ). He just wanted to see how it'd shoot. He did pretty well too.

    Chris.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDLever View Post
    Tim Hoke, Kermit's son, is making the sight and they are excellent. There is a website or I don't mind helping you get in touch if want to e-mail me. I also have MVA rear, Lee Shaver and Jim Kelly sights (front and rear) and like them all.
    I am Facebook Friends with Kermit so I will send him a message. Thanks. Good to hear his son took over the sight business.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho45guy View Post
    It appears his reputation among the BPCR crowd is well deserved. It is sad

    As I said no malice was intended, thin skins seem to be the norm. Joe made a statement about no marks needed on a sight. Based on absolutely no knowledge, I pointed out the huge fallacy in his thought process, nothing more. Those that fail to point these facts out to him, are actually doing more harm than good. If blunt harsh honesty, is sad, good grief.

    What’s sad nobody was going to point out the error in his thought process. Setting Joe up for failure isn’t any sort of kindness.

    Kenny Wasserburger

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check