Unknown & very old ??

[Dutchman]

Same length as .45-70 but the head diameter is smaller. Its been smashed flat.

Found this empty case west of Death Valley, California in a place called Saline Valley. Very hot place but lots of old mines. There's a name for this type of inserted primer pocket but I'm at a loss to remember what it is. I'd bet $$ its an American cartridge and not foreign.

case length: 2.1"
rim diameter: .525"
head diameter: .471"

[JSnover]

It sure looks like an old balloon head 45-70 case but I've never measured the rim on one of those, don't know if it would differ from the modern drawn case rim.

[Dutchman]

It sure looks like an old balloon head 45-70 case but I've never measured the rim on one of those, don't know if it would differ from the modern drawn case rim.

Its too small to be .45-70 but with a 2.1" length it has to be not far off.....I would think.

[JimB..]

Shotgun?

That domed primer in the 45-70 isn’t exactly new either.

[Dutchman]

Shotgun?

Its a folded head cartridge and dates to circa 1870s.

That domed primer in the 45-70 isn’t exactly new either.

I'll post photos of a .45-70 that's inside primed.

Dutch

[wyowillys46]

The dimensions nearly match that of a .410 case. It sure looks like a battery cup primer and a folded head case works just fine with shotgun pressures.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Early .38-55 ? It does look like a shotgun primer in the photo, an early brass cased 410 ?

[Dutchman]

Early .38-55 ? It does look like a shotgun primer in the photo, an early brass cased 410 ?

I have an empty .38-55 and this is slightly larger. Not a match.

Considering where it was found I'm sure its an American folded head cartridge. With the case mouth crushed its hard to guess about caliber but I'm leaning towards .40 caliber.

And I don't think its like a shotgun primer. I think it has a primer pocket inserted into the case then the primer is installed. I need to look through my patent drawing collection because I'm sure I'll find something similar.

Dutch

[Dutchman]