Gremlins found my scales

[slim1836]

Checked my Frankford Arsenal powder scale with the enclosed 50g calibration weight and got bad results.



So, I got out my Hornady powder scale with the enclosed 100g calibration weight and got bad results.



Well, shoot. I reload in my 12x20 shed and it's only temp. controlled when I'm out there, however, it was 68 when checking the scales. I went in the house and got batteries for both and changed them out. Same outcome. Took out the battery powered lantern, turned it on and turned off the power to the shed at the panel thinking something in the lines were interfering. Same outcome, no change.

Turned the power back on to the shed, got my Lyman Gen6 out and plugged it in. After it's 3 minute warm up countdown I put the enclosed check weight on and ....



....you guessed it, it's off.

What the heck is going on here, any suggestions other than going with my mechanical scales? It's hard to believe all three are off at the same time, but here I am, looking for answers.

It's gremlins I tell ya,

Slim

[jimkim]

Do you have a cell phone in your pocket? Is your phone's bluetooth on? Is it withing four feet of the scales? Is there any lightning nearby? Somewhere online they have a check list. I'd try to find it.

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[nhyrum]

Give the scales more time to warm up. But it's likely not just gremlins. Could be airflow, could be other sources of electric interference. But also, all the metric standards that are kept in an incredibly controlled environment don't measure what they measured when they were made to exacting specifications.

Could be they're just cheap weights that degraded, and the way to check that would be to put them on a certified balance, which is probably easier for me then for others, as my grandpa has an analytical lab he runs. Even his certified check weights don't weigh what they used to, so he just made note of what they actually weigh now and that's his weight he looks for. I believe his balances go to the hundredth of a milligram, so there pretty damn sensitive

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[Silvercreek Farmer]

Is your bench perfectly level? Have you cleaned under the pad? I just blow mine out from time to time by mouth, but something like canned air would probably be better. If you feel good about your weights, just recalibrate. Your’s are off in a different direction, but in school the wife used scales that picked up the weight of finger prints on glassware.

[slim1836]

I took the first two scales in the house for more temperature control overnight. My cell phone was on but 6' away, I'll get more distance on that tomorrow.

I also did not know check weights changed over time and I have no way to check that, still good to know.

The Gen6 isn't cheap to replace, but it's several years old.

All this is not good when trying to work up loads and repeat them. I'm going to dig what mechanical scales I have out and dust em off.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Slim

[Silvercreek Farmer]

It looks like you're pretty consistently at .035g or so off.... 1/3 of 1/10th of a grain. I'd roll on with any one of them as I don't load anything to that level of precision and doubt that many of us (including myself) are even capable of measuring to .035gn. I don't like or use electronic scales, but that's a personal preference. Given your calibration with check weights being that close...I can't see it being a problem, other than the aggravation that it isn't spot on. (Which, for full disclosure, would bother me...but more for OCD reasons than practical loading reasons!! )

The calibration weights are in grams. Works out to around .6 grains, pretty significant.

[nhyrum]

If it weighs 499.65 grams, then it weighs 499.65 grams, and there's nothing wrong with the scales, but you need a known good scale to check. Corrosion and oxidation could be what happened.

But as mentioned, make sure everything is level and clean. A phrase I learned from a jet engine mechanic is "clean enough to put in your eye" while he's not serious, just make sure everything is clean, warm and in a room with a stable temperature and no air movement. You'd be surprised how little it takes to throw off a scale as sensitive as these. But strain gauge scales do need to have the electronics and everything properly warm

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[trails4u]

The calibration weights are in grams. Works out to around .6 grains, pretty significant.

You, sir, are correct and I should have caught that before I posted!! Thank you for correcting an obvious thing I should have realized, and for doing so in a respectful manner.... I am now going to delete my earlier post as a safety measure....given that not everyone reads every thread to the end.

[ReloaderFred]

Have you gone through the calibration process with your electronic scales? Whenever mine has set unused for a while, or there is a temperature change, I go through the calibration process and get it zeroed again. Mine is a Pact Professional Scale (no longer made), but it really helps with getting accurate readings consistently.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[slim1836]

Fred, I have and that's when I found out they were off, I brought them in the house overnight and will try again tomorrow hopefully. I had a Pact several years ago, if a flea sneezed, that scale could tell.

Slim

[Froogal]

Anything electronic WILL have glitches. The glitches are built in. Mechanical scales have no electronics, therefore no glitches.

[XDROB]

How does a check weight lose or change weight? If it's kept indoors and no obvious corrosion?

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[slim1836]

I just checked my 2 battery operated scales in the house and they calibrated just fine. I did not bring the Lyman Gen6 scale in to check it but will.

Seems I, in my haste, did not calibrate the two scales properly. After reading the instructions and re-calibrating, was able to get them to pass. Looks like human error (mine) was the culprit.

I hope the Gen6 falls in line too. Thanks guys for the suggestions and help, it made me more aware of my ignorance in properly calibrating my scales.

Slim

[ReloaderFred]

I'm glad you found the problem and are able to fix it. I try to remind myself to calibrate my scale any time I've left it idle for more than a few days. It only takes a couple of minutes to do, and saves immeasurable time if I happen to drop the wrong charge in a lot of rounds and have to pull bullets. I do have a balance beam scale in reserve on the shelf for "just in case", though.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[ReloaderFred]

I just thought of something else. After calibrating my scale some time back, I wrote on the bottom of the scale pan exactly how many grains it weighs with a fine Sharpie. Mine is 121.5 grains. I also did the same with both my check weights. That way, I can use them as a quick check to see if everything is in order, or if I need to calibrate the scale again.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[tdoor4570]

I have had several electronic scales all went in the trash and went back to using my beam scales

[1hole]

I have had several electronic scales all went in the trash and went back to using my beam scales

Smart man.

Seems most folk love their digi-gadgets ... until they crap out. I used to maintain and calibrate electronic lab scales in the space program; I had good job security doing that so they are not for me.

Well, okay, I do have one reloading grade (throw-away) digital scale for weighing cases and bullets. But powder? That's not gonna happen at my house, God made balance scales for measuring gun powder!

[JWFilips]

I do a check and reset on all my electronic scales every month

[1hole]

I also did not know check weights changed over time and I have no way to check that, still good to know.
Slim

Not so much. Standard scale test weights are chunks of metal calibrated back to the National Bureau of Standards. The chunks don't flake away over time and they don't evaporate at all so they can't possibly change weight over time or temperature.

(Dimension standards for testing micrometers and calipers do change physical size - slightly - with temperature changes but that's so tiny it's of no concern to us.)

[1hole]

I do a check and reset on all my electronic scales every month

I suggest you do all of that at the beginning of each loading session.